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Viewing history as a whole... isn't as fun.

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by cephalo, Oct 26, 2010.

  1. Dun Malg

    Dun Malg Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2005
    Messages:
    55
    Of course they're obvious. He didn't say that he had no idea that the change in eras was happening. He was saying that you never got a sense of the change from the gameplay. Surely you remember how it was in Civ III & IV, where you knew you were in the medieval era because you were pushing back the English invaders with macemen and knights. No screenies were even necessary. I suspect the lack of "era flavor" is primarily due to equal parts lack of era specific music, and the "fewer units" design theory. With only half a dozen units, some of which might be un-upgraded spearmen, you just don't get the same "texture" you did with eight knights and twenty macemen bulldozering away the Aztec scum. There are probably other subtle things missing that I haven't noticed are gone, but I haven't gone back to IV yet to check.

    Regardless, whatever it is that is missing, it is very obviously missing, and it's not something that a popup saying "you are in the classical era!" can take the place of.
     
  2. Ricci

    Ricci Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    Messages:
    553
    Tactics & Strategy

    As I always saw it the slider represents a government means to abruptly invest into some needing aspect of your empire, this makes sense and it is a realistic approach, as governments do need to lean expenses into social welfare, sanitation & health, scientific development, culture, even espionage sometimes to adjust their political platform and/or upcoming and sudden situations during their office. This kind of adjustment made "for the moment" comes into the sphere of tactical gameplay. cIV is by far a much more tactical game than ciV, it has several mayor tactical features to account this aspect of the game: slider, civics, random events (to name the major ones); the only feature in which this situation could be inverted is combat, due to care positioning and more complex unit movement, etc, nevertheless combat is potentially more tactical in V as it stands today because... well no need to go any deeper into AI here.

    On the other hand we have the sphere of strategic decisions, decisions with medium/long term repercussions that need planing and involve pretty high opportunity costs. ciV has a lot of strategic choices but very little tactical aspects. CSs and specially SPs (two mainly strategic features) add a lot of strategy to the game compared to cIV. Then again a lot of other features adding strategy had been removed (espionage, religion, health, you name it..); though this is off topic here.

    Consider this, all the strategic choices to run your economy remain the same through IV into V: choosing the long term buildings, which allow both economic multipliers and specialists slots, improving the countryside (farms, cottages, workshops, windmills, etc), wonders pursuit. Even changing specialists within a turn, the tactical aspect of a specialist economy, remains (though it was much more powerful in IV due to caste system and no maintenance costs from buildings). But the commerce tactical counterpart, the slider & base commerce system, is gone. this is what has been lost with the slider, nothing more, nothing less.
     
  3. Roxlimn

    Roxlimn Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Messages:
    3,526
    Well, actually I never used a whole lot of Macemen in Civ IV because the siege units were really that much better. Trebuchets don't look particularly different from Catapults now, and they didn't back then. They also performed similarly against era-appropriate units.

    Too, with only a few units in Civ V and small upgrade costs, there shouldn't be a reason for why you're running with unupgraded Spearmen.

    With English now, you get Longbowmen, and those get the Range bonus promotion, which makes them quite distinct from the previous Archers. Camel Archers are nearly unique in terms of their capabilities - matched only by Keshik. Those really feel quite different.

    In the midgame now, Knights are not quite as powerful as Horsemen are in the earlier eras, and Cavalry even less so in their time.

    All bonuses from relevant City States progress according to era, and there are certain eras that have key tech abilities, like the ability to form Research Agreements and boosts to tile outputs.

    My point here is that while cephalo undoubtedly feels what he feels, it can't be because of these gameplay elements.

    More music files, more sim aspects. That's reasonable. Civ V have less sim aspects.

    Jolly Rogerer:

    Well, so amended. I meant "SE," by your preferred semantic game. To be honest, I don't hear a lot of people talking about Specialists in Civs 1 and 2. Seriously. Given the amendment, no other commentary?

    You could try playing it a different way. That would change the way the game plays pretty significantly.

    Civ V appears to be simpler because the advisors are a little more in-your-face, and there's a sense that they tell you everything there is to know about the game. This is not true. If that's what's causing the problem, I highly suggest just ignoring their non-factual advice.
     

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