Vigilante "Get off My Lawn" Justice Apparently Alive And Well In Florida

Formaldehyde

Both Fair And Balanced
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A 69-year-old man who lives in an affluent gated community with a full-time guard, who is well-known for yelling at the local kids for various reasons, decided once again to try to stop one of them from skateboarding at the basketball court on Sunday, which is apparently against the rules of the community.

A 41-year-old man, who is retired from the Air Force, was there playing basketball with his 8-year-old daughter and tried to intervene before he did anything too stupid. A physical scuffle apparently broke out, and the 69-year-old shot and killed him.

While the local authorities try to decide if this is a crime or not under the new laws of when or when not you can kill neighbors with a firearm, the vigilante went back to work at his job yesterday as school bus driver. After finding out what happened, the school board has reassigned him for the time being.



Original article which appeared yesterday.

Spoiler :
VALRICO — David James was enjoying an afternoon game of basketball Sunday with his 8-year-old daughter when he was shot and killed in front of her by a neighbor trying to chase away skateboarders, said friends and authorities.

Neighbors say James, 41, was defending the skateboarders, telling a man who lives across the street there was no sign to prohibit them from skateboarding on the courts.

"I see a sign," the assailant replied as he pulled a gun, neighbors said.

The suspect, who was not identified by authorities, then waited next to the body for Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office deputies to arrive, neighbors said.

The man was questioned by detectives and the State Attorney's Office officials and released Sunday night, said sheriff's spokesman Deputy Larry McKinnon.

"Additional details of the investigation will not be publicly released at this time," he said.

In some killings, suspects have invoked a "stand your ground" defense, which relies on a state law that allows people to meet force with force when they feel threatened.

"Whether this case meets those guidelines remains to be seen," McKinnon said.

A key witness in the case is likely to be 8-year-old Danielle, who used her father's cell phone to call her mother after the shooting, said the victim's 17-year-old stepson, Garrett.

"At first she wasn't too bad," Garrett said. But she broke down after being questioned by investigators.

"She's taking it worse than anybody," the younger James said.

Deputies responded Sunday about 4 p.m. to a call about a shooting at 3207 Partridge Point Trail, across the street from the basketball court.

At dusk, neighbors gathered on the usually quiet streets outside the crime tape.

"It's a classic example of someone losing their temper over something silly," said Rhonda Norris, 40, who described her Twin Lakes neighborhood as family-friendly.

A recent concert in the park drew hundreds for free hot dogs and music by the Single Malt Brothers. Christmas brings performances by the high school band.

The suspect, though, had a reputation for nagging neighbors about loose dogs, and yelling and swearing at the skateboarders who like to set up ramps and rails on the community basketball court to practice their moves.

"I'm not surprised it fell out the way it did," Garrett James said.

His stepfather, who retired two years ago after serving 20 years in the Air Force, was the type of man who would stand up for people he thought were being treated unfairly, he said.

"He was a really good man," he said. "If he hadn't been there, you'd probably have two teenage kids dead instead of my dad."

And as one of the neighborhood's many skateboarders, he said he had his own run-ins with the suspect. So did his friend, Bill Myers, 16.

"He's given me a lot of trouble throughout the years," Myers said. "He likes to say he paid for that court himself."


The court, along with tennis courts and an athletic field, are maintained with dues from members of the homeowners association.

Myers and James say they have tried to petition the Twin Lakes homeowners association to build a skateboard park, collecting signatures from sympathetic parents.

Although there is a no trespassing sign on the basketball court, they believe that applies only to people who don't live in the neighborhood, which has a security booth at its entrance where a guard takes the names of visitors every day after 6 p.m.

"Everybody's lives have been changed by a conflict and an irrational decision," said Derek Matthews, who lives across the street from the crime scene. "It's a terrible, sad situation."

Today's followup story about the vigilante returning to work as a bus driver.

Spoiler :
VALRICO

Trevor Dooley walked out of his suburban house Sunday afternoon, past his trimmed lawn and nice landscaping, to confront a boy riding a skateboard on the basketball court across the street. That's against the rules in this neighborhood, and Dooley, 69, was carrying a gun.

David James, 41, with 20 years in the Air Force, was playing basketball with his 8-year-old daughter. They played every Sunday.

James stood up for the skateboarder, neighbors said. The men argued and got into a "physical confrontation," the Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office said. Then, in front of his daughter, James was shot dead.

What authorities don't know is who pulled the trigger, or whether it was justified.

The Sheriff's Office has not named Dooley as a suspect or charged him with a crime. When police arrived around 4 p.m., he was waiting with the dead man. He invoked his right to remain silent and called his lawyer.

"We haven't named him yet as a suspect. I'm not going to say he's not," said sheriff's Col. Albert Frost. "We have various witnesses and various conflicting statements at this point to start with. Obviously, that doesn't help us. We're trying to sort out the facts and trying to determine what really happened."

So Dooley went back to work Monday morning, driving a school bus loaded with kids.

Hillsborough schools spokeswoman Linda Cobbe said the Sheriff's Office did not notify the school district of Dooley's involvement in the shooting.

"We didn't know of any kind of allegations until we got a call from someone," Cobbe said. "Then I talked to the transportation manager, but by then he was done with his route for the day."

Would they have acted differently had they known about Dooley's involvement?

"Possibly," she said. "It didn't become evident to us until we started getting all of these calls. … We err on the side of caution when student safety or employee safety is at risk."

Dooley, a New York City transplant, drives a route for Barrington Middle School and Newsome High School, both in Lithia. He also picks up elementary children who missed the bus.

Cobbe said he will be reassigned "for his safety and the students'."

School Board member Candy Olson struggled to put her surprise into words.

"He's a school bus driver who drove — oh, my gosh," she said.

Olson said the Sheriff's Office should have immediately contacted the district if it knew a bus driver had been involved in such an incident. "They certainly owe us the information that they have," she said.

"For his safety and the safety of his students," said board member April Griffin. "People are angry about this. There are definitely some questions that need to be answered."

Dooley, who listed his previous employer as Ted's Transport Services in the Bronx when he applied here to drive buses, didn't answer his door Monday afternoon.

Neighbors said Dooley is a fine man with good intentions. They couldn't understand how a man wound up dead.

"It's just really sad and it's stupid," said Sam Romano, 50, a neighbor. "None of it made any sense to any of us."

Mark Cox, a State Attorney's Office spokesman, said he couldn't yet explain why no charges have been filed.

"It's still very much a pending investigation," he said. "We're working on it diligently."

Neighbors said James was defending skateboarders, who they said have had multiple run-ins with Dooley.

"We've gone off on each other before," said James' stepson, 17-year-old Garrett James.

James' wife, Kanina James, can't understand why Dooley is free.

"It's over and it's done and it can't be undone," she said on the phone to a friend Monday morning. "Yeah, they caught him and they let him go. I don't know why."

She smoked Marlboro Golds on her back porch in the Twin Lakes neighborhood, on a white wicker bench, blotting her eyes with a paper towel and trying to make sense of how a father-daughter basketball game turned deadly.

Kanina James said her husband was a good man. "He would help anybody out. I think that's what happened yesterday. I think he was just trying to help someone out."

The two met when Kanina worked as a cocktail waitress in Las Vegas. She was taken by his big muscles and his eyes. "I remember thinking, 'He's just so beautiful.' His eyes were so pretty." They married a few years later, in 1998.

James loved his daughter Danielle. The two played basketball every Sunday and rode around the neighborhood on a Kawasaki Vulcan motorcycle with a special seat for Danielle.

"He and Danielle were so close," Kanina said. "He was her best friend."

Kanina said she learned her husband had been shot when a woman called from his cell phone. She hurried to the park and noticed that paramedics were not working on him. She tried to run to him but deputies held her back.

At the scene, Danielle asked her mother why no one was helping her dad. "I just said, 'He already went up to heaven.' "

Detectives interviewed the girl Monday. The Sheriff's Office said she was traumatized, which complicates the investigation.

"The minute we can reach a point we have a finding and something we can move on, we will," said Frost, the sheriff's colonel.

Photo of the victim:



How many more people are going to have to die before this absurd new law gets overturned?
 
Isn't this what we expect of old people?
 
It says he remained silent and asked for a lawyer, not that he invoked the new law. It also said authorities were deconflicting multiple statements, they didn't say anything about the new law.
 
Some law, whatever it may happen to be, is clearly not right if this guy is getting released without charge.

I'm curious as to what act by the deceased led to the old guy thinking it pertinent to retaliate with a firearm.
 
This happened the day before yesterday. While it sounds like the old coot committed manslaughter at the very least, it's really too early to start throwing out judgement. The police haven't made any arrests yet, this guy hasn't mounted a legal defense, and the facts aren't all out on the table.

Further more, while I dislike Florida's self-offense laws, I agree that you can't really blame them until and unless he successfully uses them to get away with homicide.
 
So wait.. let me get this straight. An old guy shot and killed someone for skateboarding (wether illegal or not) and hes not being tried for murder? What the feck?

If he gets off free then basically the courts just said its OK to kill someone if they are breaking the law. Not like he was actually threatened by a skateboarder.

Why is he not being held in jail while they investigate? Someone who murders someone over an argument should not be allowed back onto the streets before the trial.
 
America is so screwed up, in this regard
 
So wait.. let me get this straight. An old guy shot and killed someone for skateboarding (wether illegal or not) and hes not being tried for murder? What the feck?

If he gets off free then basically the courts just said its OK to kill someone if they are breaking the law. Not like he was actually threatened by a skateboarder.

Why is he not being held in jail while they investigate? Someone who murders someone over an argument should not be allowed back onto the streets before the trial.
Maybe instead of murder it should be manslaughter -or aggravated manslaughter if such a thing exists under Florida laws- but you can't let people shoot each other and then walk home as if nothing's happened.
 
I find it very difficult to believe that reactionaries don't know all about the recently passed "stand your ground" .e.g. "shoot first and ask questions later" law, which has been passed in a few of the more backward states, especially since it has been the topic of discussion in the forum whenever such incidents have occurred.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes...ng=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html

(3)A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
A few years ago, he couldn't have used deadly force unless he had retreated and was chased.
 
Just threatening a kid with a gun for this kind of reason should be worth jail time imo.
 
Scuffle insued? How was the 40 year old dude not able to totally man-handle a 70 year old grandpa? The 40 year old looked pretty built too.
 
So wait.. let me get this straight. An old guy shot and killed someone for skateboarding (wether illegal or not) and hes not being tried for murder? What the feck?

Actually, it was the guy who was trying to intervene between the old man and the kid who was killed.
 
I find it very difficult to believe that reactionaries don't know all about the recently passed "stand your ground" .e.g. "shoot first and ask questions later" law, which has been passed in a few of the more backward states, especially since it has been the topic of discussion in the forum whenever such incidents have occurred.
One presumes bringing a gun to threaten someone with negates the protections afforded the man via the law you cite.
 
One presumes bringing a gun to threaten someone with negates the protections afforded the man via the law you cite.

Plus it would really only make sense for that law to be enforced if you are on your property and there is an intruder of some sort, not on a basketball court.
 
One presumes bringing a gun to threaten someone with negates the protections afforded the man via the law you cite.
One presumes he did not do so because he is still a free man.

Plus it would really only make sense for that law to be enforced if you are on your property and there is an intruder of some sort, not on a basketball court.
It doesn't matter with the new law. If you can legally be someplace, you can kill someone whom you believe may do you "great bodily harm", even if you created the confrontation in the first place.
 
Was he being assaulted by the other guy? If he was being attacked, he should be allowed to defend himself.

HOWEVER..... In Missouri, if you instigate a situation then shoot someone for attacking you after you instigated it, you just screwed yourself and will most likely face murder charges. They drilled that into us at the conceal-carry class.
 
I think it's safe to assume that there were some extenuating circumstances that we haven't heard yet that will paint a clearer picture. But I'm struggling to come up with any that would, firstly, not have been reported yet, and secondly, would justify what appears to have happened.
 
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