Violence towards the innocent -- why?

[sourboy]

How selfish or brainwashed have people become these days that they feel the need to shoot-up innocents at schools, blow up public venues, or attack random people -- when ultimately they end up dead themselves? What ever happened to suicide?

Anyone explain to me why people have lost all sense of reason and feel the need to take others down with them? I guess I see the religious motiviation to some extent -- but let's face it, no religion endorses murder -- even if it's to rival religions. School kids shooting up peers? Why? Not enough attention?

Do you think this trend will continue? Will the world just continue to crack down on this sort of thing, or is that even possible? How do we combat this when it's usually by surprise, not to mention the end result is death of the attacker, thus no pattern available to foreshadow their final attack?

 

[Jawz II]

There are no 'innocents'. If you have a problem with violence against people, then say so.

How do we combat this. Well you can't.
If you can't even pay your teachers a decent salary.

But the way to do it, is to make sure there's an adult around most of the time, at places where kids usually are (school for example). That adult would help the kids that are being picked on, maybe by messing with the bullies a little or something, I dunno.

I don't have all the details, but that is the way to do it.

 

[CurtSibling]

I think morons who want to kill themselves should go to a quiet hillside and do it.

Why take down many innocent bystanders who do not get a choice to live or die?

It is the ultimate infantile grandiosity, this desire to destroy others in a pointless suicide.

...

 

[zxcvbnm]

edit: we said exactly the same at exacty the same time

 

[CurtSibling]

They won't be around to enjoy it!

 

[QuoVadisNation]

The short answer is egoism. People like that tend to absorb themselves in whatever ideology or mind-set and if not enough people agree, the person tends to get either angry or resentful. And when they continue with that specific idelogy regardless, they tend to become somewhat anti-social to say in the best terms.

Although the title of the thread asks a whole different question, which is something I won't get into.

 

[Brighteye]

It's some sort of revenge; 'my life has been made unpleasant and/or pointless. I think that these people did it. I do not trust God or other systems of justice to punish them for it. I shall be judge and executioner on my own behalf.'

 

[zxcvbnm]

They won't be around to enjoy it!

The irony: they think of what happens after their death

 

[brennan]

Religion and Hate.

 

[DBear]

How do we combat this. Well you can't.
If you can't even pay your teachers a decent salary.

WTH does teacher salary have to do with this?

 

[Masquerouge]

Anyone explain to me why people have lost all sense of reason and feel the need to take others down with them?

Your answer is right there. You're trying to rationalize something that is fundamentally irrational. Well, you can't.

 

[C~G]

It's some sort of revenge; 'my life has been made unpleasant and/or pointless. I think that these people did it. I do not trust God or other systems of justice to punish them for it. I shall be judge and executioner on my own behalf.'

This is pretty much it.

And Let me ask you this sourboy:

Why not?

I think the whole question is actually perverted if you think that it's ok that you're depressed and your life is fouled up and you should then just go kill yourself like it is all your fault but at the same time killing someone else is somehow stupid or even immoral.

It's like saying that "you shouldn't feel bad when others don't feel bad about you or don't care about you, better just go and kill yourself. But don't take others with you since it's unpleasant and wrong".

Maybe they want to make a point and take those with them that they feel who are responsible of their life being so bad, sometimes their targeting is more precise and sometimes it's just toward society in general.

When people do suicide hardly anyone notices or changes their behaviour towards those that are left alone etc. It's like these people are expected to have still common courtesy not to take anyone with them if they decide to exit.

It should be also noted that if we left out those few that make murders, there are numerous that do suicides and even more those that make slow suicides through alcoholism etc. and most of these people are just forgotten.

So there.

 

[CurtSibling]

A desire for fame is no excuse to be snuffing out random lives.

Start a successful death-blog or commit suicide on Youtube if you want posthumous recognition.

...

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

Do you think this trend will continue? Will the world just continue to crack down on this sort of thing, or is that even possible? How do we combat this when it's usually by surprise, not to mention the end result is death of the attacker, thus no pattern available to foreshadow their final attack?

A few incidents; not really an impending disaster.

 

[Masquerouge]

A desire for fame is no excuse to be snuffing out random lives.

Start a successful death-blog or commit suicide on Youtube if you want posthumous recognition.

...

You're not seriously asking crazy people to behave normally?

Someone who decides to kill a bunch of people then himself is not sane. As such, logical arguments are pretty much wasted.

 

[C~G]

Someone who decides to kill a bunch of people then himself is not sane. As such, logical arguments are pretty much wasted.

But Masq, do you think suicide without killing is more logical than with killing?

If you decide to cease to exist, I think all bets are out of window what is logical and whatnot.

 

[Imrahil91]

When something like a school shooting happens, I think that those who do it probably have felt like they have been stepped on, feel no-worthy even if the peers haven't really done anything bad, maybe just not done good things (it's easy to ignore them).
And then maybe their life gets screwed up, and they don't believe in their dreams anymore etc. so they want to find someone to blame, and that little feeling has grown up with their anger.
They stop caring about their own life, then other lives also don't matter.
When they stand with a gun on everyone else they maybe envy, and/or hate because they blame them for everything bad, the gunman feels he got revenge and got to be the most important person there, and he controls the situation.

edit: typing..

 

[nc-1701]

Quite simply it's revenge. Almost nobody goes suicidal just for the hell of it. Usually it's because something or someone screwed up their life. This is why murder suicides are so common during divorces, peoples lives are destroyed and they blame their (former) spouse so they take them out too as a final act of revenge.
Mass shootings are the same, just on a larger scale. Here the person feels forsaken by socety in general, society has betrayed them, and so they retaliate agiaisnt society in general by killing as many people as they can.
Now targeted terrorism is compltely different but I don't think that's what your asking about.

 

[Masquerouge]

But Masq, do you think suicide without killing is more logical than with killing?

Yes it is. The guy who is suffering from a terminal and painful disease and decides to end his life is IMO doing a rational thing.
The teenager who decides to blow up his school and himself, is not.

The teenager who decides to just kill himself because of an emo surge? Well... probably not logical, I'll give you that

 

[raketooy]

@Masquerouge: Let's assume that the teenager is egoistic, does not believe in life after death and likes violence. If he is going to kill himself, as horrible as it is, it is actually rational to kill other people at the same time. And in the whole world there must be numerous people who are egoistic and atheist and like violence.

Of course, no normal person would do like that even if they were to kill themselves. Even if an atheist person liked violence, people are normally not nearly egoistic enough that they wouldn't feel bad when killing others.