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Virote's Ancient Greek Scenario

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Creation & Customization' started by Virote_Considon, Oct 5, 2006.

  1. Taras Bulba

    Taras Bulba gone

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    naw, it doesn't have wool

    no, i don't, but i should look into it, maybe then i can get all my unit_32 files to work
     
  2. Virote_Considon

    Virote_Considon The Great Dictator

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    The GIMP is free, if you want something to try...
     
  3. Taras Bulba

    Taras Bulba gone

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    ill go try it out, thanks
     
  4. flamescreen

    flamescreen Ancient Mariner

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    You can prolly change "Klaroi" to "Kleroi". Can't be sure of the English spelling, but seems closer to the Greek version(KLHPOI with a Greek Lambda should be the closer but a foreigner would read it incorrectly).

    Diomedes looks magnificent.

    Also link to Maenad(I think you mention it somewhere) for pronunciation purposes
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maenad
     
  5. Virote_Considon

    Virote_Considon The Great Dictator

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    Thanks for that. I'll change the "a" to an "e", then :)

    And thanks to Odin's help, he should be released shortly! :goodjob:

    That'd be in the Tequest thread. Have I spelt it wrong (again) any wear? :blush:
     
  6. flamescreen

    flamescreen Ancient Mariner

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    You didn't spell it wrongly.
    I think Varwnos suggested an alternate version, but considering it's an English scenario, maybe the official version English speaking people use would be handy.
     
  7. Virote_Considon

    Virote_Considon The Great Dictator

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    :bump:

    Generic Second Era Tech Tree is now up! Viewable also are the two possible governments at the moment for the era, an a couple of Spartan/Theban/Corinthian techs.

    EDIT: Ignore the line through Viticulture that leads to Exploration. It's supposed to be a line straight from Diplomacy. I'm thinking of making Viticulture a flavour tech, although ATM it's just Generic.

    I am also pleased to say that I have all of the Generic units added! Now all I have to do is finish eras 3+4 and assign the units the proper techs.

    Other changes:
    -Resources added to the map (they're literally everywhere ;), although as you can see in the above image, Settlers will be somewhere in Era2, so you'll have to hope that your actual cities have the resources around them :)
    -Merged Maurya and the Himalayan Alliance (Maurya was part of the alliance, anyway). Added the Bosporan Kingdom. This should make the Black Sea more interesting!
    -Many tweaks here and there that people don't really need to know about at this stage (;))
     
  8. Virote_Considon

    Virote_Considon The Great Dictator

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    era3 now done. Again, ignore some of the tech icons and odd unit placements (a military unit in Democracy?). The tech tree is again shown with a mostly Spartan flavour, although they cannot research Democracy.
     
  9. Virote_Considon

    Virote_Considon The Great Dictator

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    And here is the current Steppe-city unit lines.

    The Horse Archer lines are your average cheap-ish, fast, weak cavalry.
    The Chariot/Horseman lines are slightly slower and more expensive but stronger units.
    The Swordsmen are the strongest and slowest.
    The Archers are weaker than the Swordsmen, but can cause collateral damage, and have Zones of Control.
    The Militia lines are the only Steppe units to have feasible defensive stats, and they enslave workers when victorious in battle. They are also the standard draftable units. However, they're very expensive, and also cost population.
    The Skirmishers aren't wheeled right from the start of their lines, but they are very weak.
    The Raiders are expensive, fast, weak invisible units. They are also not wheeled, and can Blitz.
    The Camel Warrior can detect invisible units, and ignores the movement costs of Desert tiles. It is otherwise pretty much the same as the Horse Archer line.

    At the beginning of the game, the only civs who can build these units are Scythia (in their Steppe cities) and Persia (in their Baktrian cities).

    EDIT: The units with a big black dot need to be replaced when more central-Asian Steppe-like graphics come about.
     
  10. Virote_Considon

    Virote_Considon The Great Dictator

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    :bump: Don't think I've forgotten about updating this!

    The mod has gone through a major overhaul in the past nearly-six-months since I posted the previous update. The time frame has been slashed, many civs who do not fin the time frame have been axed, the generic tech tree has been cut back as good as possible, so that now there are virtually no generic techs, some culture-specific techs, and the rest are group-specific techs. Further more, I've gone through a rigorous de-cluttering program, which has involved starting a new folder and .biq (although, all the old stuff is obviously kept for reference).

    So, without due, here is the update I'm sure a couple of you have been waiting for...

    Alpha Testing Time Frame
    -I'm hoping to get the first alpha version out for testing by Christmas. It will be a public alpha test, and most unnecessary parts will remain unfinished, such as Leaderhead files (which are sort of half-in right now). The generic tech tree, the Greek-specific tech tree (both already finished), and the Peloponnesian League tech tree (not yet started) will all be finished, and then I'll update with each tree that I finish, so that anyone who wants can play test.

    Major Mod Changes

    The Map
    As I kept going back between the two maps that I've been using (Keroro's map of the world, Varwnos' map of Greece), I decided that I'd use the part I deem most important for the later (South Greece), and attach it to the former, at a place which conveniently fits. The downside to this, is that large parts of Desert in Africa, the Sinai, and some of the Levant are distorted. However, this is the expense of a good-sized Southern Greece, so I think it is worth it ;)

    The Time Frame
    Ok, so I've finally realized that doing a fully in-depth scenario focusing on around 2800 years of Ancient Greek history wasn't really plausible due to editor restrictions. So I've cut back on the time frame, big time. The scenario now lasts from 1000 BC (aprox. mid way through the Dark Ages), through to 323 BC (the year of Alexander’s death), with each turn representing one turn (so, it is to be a fairly long scenario). I’m trying to keep to this time frame as strictly as possible, although obviously sometimes this can just not be the case (for instance, when you have a lack of information on a particular subject, or something). Also, the scenario does not start strictly in 1000 BC, again, due to editor limitations. For example, Babylon has already defeated Assyria and claimed hegemony around the ancient Middle East. Likewise, Persia has already taken a hold of Media’s vast empire. For Persia, the scenario sort of begins a small time before the war against Lydia. There are also many cities placed that historically were not during this period.

    The Civilizations

    So, as I have said, the scenario has been cut, and many civs just could not make the cut, such as Mycenae, the Centaur, Troy, Doric, etc. Some new civs have, however, made it through. This is the new civ count:
    -Sparta
    -Etruria
    -Macedonia
    -Euboea
    -Athens
    -Corinth
    -Thebes
    -Elis
    -Scythia
    -Argos
    -Epirus
    -Persia
    -Crete
    -India
    -Iberia
    -Ionia
    -Babylonia
    -Lydia
    -Dacia
    -Thessaly
    -Celts
    -The Bosporan Kingdom
    -Phoenicia
    -Illyria
    -Aetolia
    -Messenia
    -Thrace
    -Egpyt
    -Pontus
    -Sheba
    -Magna Graecia

    Most civilizations not in Asia or Africa start off with a small amount of Settlers and flavoured Warriors, with the Greeks starting out in an almost battle-scarred looking place, complete with ruins and a couple of roads. They first have to learn the first era’s generic techs (which is about 5 or so, and by far the biggest amount of generic techs per era), and then they can happily go about learning their cultural- or tailored tech trees. The tech groupings are as follows:
    -Peloponnesian League Tree (will be biased towards a Diplomatic victory condition): Sparta, Corinth, Thebes, Elis, Aetolia
    -Barbarian Tech Tree (will be biased towards a Victory Point victory, through the enslavement of “loot): Etruria, Scythia, Dacia, the Celts, Illyria, Thrace
    -Hellenistic Tech Tree (will be biased towards either a Domination or Conquest victory condition): Macedonia, Epirus, Pontus
    -Colony Race Tech Tree (will be biased towards winning a “space”, or Colony Race victory): Euboea, Crete, Caria/Ionia, Thessaly, the Bosporan Kingdom, Phoenicia, Magna Graecia
    Athenian Tech Tree (will be biased towards winning a one-city Cultural victory, and maybe a Diplomatic victory, too): Athens (alone!)
    Trade Tech Tree (will be biased towards a Victory Point victory, through improvement-spawned “trade goods”, which must be taken to trade-locations): Argos, Iberia, Lydia, Messenia, Sheba
    Tribute Tech Tree (will be biased towards a Victory Point victory, through improvement-spawned “tribute”, or a Domination victory): Persia, Babylonia, Egypt
    Indian Tech Tree (will be biased towards a Cultural victory throughout the whole empire)

    Civilizations will also start in a group government, although the groups are not the same as the tech groupings. Some civilizations (Babylon, Persia, India and Egypt, specifically) have governments which are meant to hamper their development in the beginning of the game, both to provide the smaller civs a fighting chance, and also to make the game for these civs about changing government ASAP.

    Resources
    I’m still keeping regional unit lines, all be it, not as in depth as above. These unit lines will now consist of (unless I want a civ to have better/worse, and so long as it is not their “homeland”): A worker (usually wheeled, unless Arabian), an early warrior, a late warrior, a sea unit, and a late “special” unit, which I feel represents the culture well, that doesn’t fit as a “generic” unit, such as an Indian elephant. There will be some crossover between the units, particularly in Africa and Arabia, as well as Greece, Scythia and Thrace, but I’ve ordered them into some kind of orderly fashion. Due to my allowing of Settlers in the scenario, the resources occupy every square which does not house another resource already, thus maximising the chance that a resource will be built upon. One advantage currently, seems that as I’ve allowed civilizations to build their “native” generic units, they seem to be building a lot of galleys. And I mean a lot. The previews I’m about to post showing one or so galleys is nothing compared to the stacks of these generic things I’m seeing, regardless of AI build prefs. (which must be a bonus!) In fact, it’s kinda making me scared to start moving civs onto their own lines!

    The location resources are: Arabians, North Africans, Egyptians, Steppe Barbarians, Ethiopians, Persians, Barbarians (in Europe), Indians, Africans, Italians, Greeks (also found in Asia Minor, and around the Black Sea), Mesopotamians (found throughout the Middle East). There are also some special resources: Bactrians, Phoenicians, Babylon and Alexandria (the first and last of these may be “replaced”, as the first can be a mix of Persians and Steppe Barbarians, and the last is too recent for the scenario).

    Religion
    The religious system in this scenario is pretty generic, with improvements such as the “Shrine to the God of War”. In the scenario, religion works like this: First, you must research “Mythology” and build a temple. Once a city has a temple and the correct resources, it can build a Deity-specific Shrine. Once three of a specific shrine have been built in the empire, a fully-fledged deity-specific temple can be built, which is a small wonder, and may (depending on the temple) require different resources. Religion-based GW’s will usually require one of these temples.

    Now, here are some SS’s in a Sparta game:

    Resource-rich Laconia at the very beginning of the game


    The first rival civilizations galley of the game, after only 13 turns, just outside where Laurium should be (pesky AI not settling where they start!)


    An Egyptian Galley makes its presence known as far as Gythium, whilst a Theban Warrior and Settler trek through Laconia, looking for a new home


    Athenian and Ionian galleys sitting idly by. Where I’d just moved from, you would have been able to see a Thracian galley blocking up the sea.


    And another Ionian galley, as I make another move! As you can see, this is still very early in the game! Pretty much every corner I cross, I’m seeing another Galley, and oftentimes, Galleys come sailing around my shore, too.
     
  11. The Last Conformist

    The Last Conformist Irresistibly Attractive

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    You might want to change "Argosian" to "Argive", the usual English adjective. :)

    Given the ancient Greek habit of refering to foreign war-gods as "Ares", sky-gods as "Zeus", etc, why don't use the Greek names?
     
  12. Blue Monkey

    Blue Monkey Archon Without Portfolio

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    Glad this is back on track. I want to give your post a couple of thorough read-throughs before commenting on the specifics. I look forward to play testing; I love the ancient era mods.
    This would be fine for India in this mod. I'd have to look up the exact details but Zeus, for example, has a place in the Vedic Era religion under a name that is basically the drift of the Indo-European root word in that direction.
     
  13. Virote_Considon

    Virote_Considon The Great Dictator

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    @TLC: Thanks, changed to "Argive" :)

    On the subject of Religion, I'm still not sure, because when playing as "the other side", you'll no doubt wonder why your Temple to Ishtar is named "Temple of Aphrodite". I'll have to give it some more consideration.
     
  14. RedAlert

    RedAlert Love one another

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    Hi :) I thought I would drop by to give my compliments -
    This is one sweet looking mod! It seems like a lot of hard work well done. :goodjob:
     
  15. Virote_Considon

    Virote_Considon The Great Dictator

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    Thanks, Red.

    Here are some more SS's, from a game last night/today as Elis:


    These Galleys sailed all the way from either Carthage or Utica, around the Northern Mediterranean to see my puny mighty nation. As you can see, the invasion if Messenia was good for a city, but then drew into a bloody stalemate. I'm currently in a war with Argos, which is going considerably better.


    From lands a far, the Greek Colonists build tell the tales of the Iliad and the Odyssey...
     
  16. T.A JONES

    T.A JONES Deity

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    Talk about coming otta know where, atleast for me . I had know idea you were up to a epic mod of this caliber man! THis looks truly most excellent!

    Great to see you finnaly strut your stuff on the mod scene. Tech screens are most invigorating. Yes me wait impatiently :) SO dont rest till we got a beta test :hammer:
     
  17. The Last Conformist

    The Last Conformist Irresistibly Attractive

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    The Vedic name is Dyaus. :)
    That's where you break a lance for public edification and introduce them to interpretatio graeca. :cool: The rest of the world is seen thru Greek eyes (eg. geography), so why not religion?

    Edit: On the subject of language, the adjective refering to Elis is "Elean".
     
  18. Virote_Considon

    Virote_Considon The Great Dictator

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    @T.A.: The mod isn't going to be as much as an epic game mod at the moment, because it is now only three eras, although Era 1 will last about 200 turns, and I think I want Era 2 to last about 200-300 turns, too...

    @TLC: OK, you've convinced me ;)

    @All: The 1st era "Peloponnesian" tree has its techs added!
     
  19. T.A JONES

    T.A JONES Deity

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    Thats epic enough. You know what I mean. Just look how many techs you fit on the screen. This stands out as grade A $. Should be real good thanks
     
  20. Virote_Considon

    Virote_Considon The Great Dictator

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    It's been cut even further than that, I'm afraid.

    Anyway, here's a screenshot showing a load of Illyrian Fishing Boats in their capital. There were 22 in total

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