Virtues

[ltccone]

Does anybody not pick their virtues from the science tree first?

If there is a reason to pick the others trees first, I'd like to hear it.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

I often go for the 1st virtue in prosperity and the 1st virtue in industry first. The reason is that I like the increased pop growth and increased production as soon as possible.

 

[wayneb64]

Ten percent science is useless until you get at least 10 science and that takes a while. With the culture option and building a Old Earth Relic first, I always take the 10% growth and free worker from Prosperity and then the 10% building bonus from Industry. I try not to start fighting aliens until I can get a few Might bonuses and the science boost from aliens.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

Does anybody not pick their virtues from the science tree first?

If there is a reason to pick the others trees first, I'd like to hear it.

I'd say the best opening is to grab the free colonist from Prosperity in conjunction with Laboratory as starting equipment to get a city, the free Marine and a trade route up and running asap. The extra hammers for the capital will give you a lot of early game moment, allowing you to build all other essential buildings and units (workers, colonists, trade convoys) much faster.

Afterwards Industry is stronger than Knowledge because the extra production and energy it offers are available right off the bat, while Knowledge needs positive happiness (which you won't have until mid game) and a lot of pop to have a decent impact. Industry also makes sure that all your cities will produce new buildings much faster and the boost for trade routes empowers your strongest source of early to mid game yield. In addition to that Industry offers a lot more health and the conversion options for production mean that you can use some of the extra hammers from this tree for Growth, Energy or Science if you need to.

I was a big fan of Knowledge pre-patch, but the changes made it vastly inferiour to Industry (and probably even Prosperiy if you play a wide empire). Another problem is that matches usually don't last longer than 250 turns, so when Knowledge starts to shine the game is already over.

 

[LORD ORION]

You are giving up ALOT by not taking the colonist from prosperity first
1) It comes out 10 turns faster then any other means
2) You can create an early expansion buffer zone to stop stations from soiling good locations

I see no reason why you should ever deviate from this opening virtue path
Prosperity
1) Frugality -> 2) Homesteading -> 3) Colony Initiative
Industry
4) Labor Logistics -> 5) Central Planning -> 6) Standarized Architecture -> *Free 6xT1* -> 7) Profiteering -> 8) Either Interdependence Network or Alternative Markets depending on your trade routes

#6 Is THE most important virtue to get new colonies going
#7 Will get your colonies to size 6 comfortably while you research into +Health tech *The reason 6 is a magic number is because it is the basic health you get from the basic health buildings. Clinic, Pharma Lab and Cytonursery and then you add +0.5 global health per trade route which you should be cranking out right around that time you get this virtue* This combo basically allows you to expand forever without getting too far past -10 health

 

[Victus75]

Good advice all, thanks. So far (and I'm only on my second game, working my way up difficulty-wise as I get used to the mechanics of BE) I picked primarily Prosperity playing as Hutama, figuring city boost with trade routes is a good thing (and I had Engineers as starting colonists so I thought I could bypass Production) and chose the Military tree playing as Brazil, going for a domination victory. Both I supplemented in the Science virtues.

It's obvious now going forward, especially increasing in game difficulty I'll follow the advice above.

 

[Minor Annoyance]

Generally not many people take knowledge virtues at all. I'd have expected the first post to read:

Does anybody pick their virtues from the science tree first?

If there is a reason not to pick the others trees first, I'd like to hear it.

 

[ltccone]

I thought science was the most important. Looks like I was wrong.

 

[Kutuzov]

I am not a max-power player so I will sometimes choose to play in a manner which would be considered totally 'inefficient' by some here in order to have a different game experience. In my Brazil game, I went with the Might tree and it made for an interesting game. Also went with Purity and so the Aliens had a rough time of it.

 

[CivScientist]

I thought science was the most important. Looks like I was wrong.

Science is everything in CivBE. Unfortunately, the Knowledge track doesn't really help your science rate all that much despite its name.

If you want high science, get academies and trade routes. To pay for those academies and work them, you need energy and population. More cities boost the collective science from your trade routes too which means you need health. Thus, Propsperity and Industry are really where you need to be focusing to get your science rate up there.

The Knowledge track on the other hand doesn't enable you to build a sizable population, multiple trade routes, or the money to pay for academy spam. The boost it does provide directly to science is paltry compared to what trade routes and academies provide. As already mentioned, the real benefits of the Knowledge track don't really kick in until you have a large population and positive health.

 

[Minor Annoyance]

I thought science was the most important. Looks like I was wrong.

It is, but prosperity gets you more cities and population, and industry more buildings which all can increase your science. More development means more of everything, including science.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

It is, but prosperity gets you more cities and population, and industry more buildings which all can increase your science. More development means more of everything, including science.

This. You get more science from Industry than Knowledge because it developes your infrastructure much faster.

 

[ltccone]

This. You get more science from Industry than Knowledge because it developes your infrastructure much faster.

Makes sense. I always play marathon; I don't think that would affect the choice of virtues though.

 

[Plumfairy]

I see no reason why you should ever deviate from this opening virtue path
Prosperity
1) Frugality -> 2) Homesteading -> 3) Colony Initiative
Industry
4) Labor Logistics -> 5) Central Planning -> 6) Standarized Architecture -> *Free 6xT1* -> 7) Profiteering -> 8) Either Interdependence Network or Alternative Markets depending on your trade routes

I've had success adding in Might virtues after #4, and picking up 5 & 6 a bit later when I'm playing Brazil.

But yeah... I really want to pick Knowledge for a change, but it seems vastly inferior to the other 3 paths as others have said.

 

[GeoModder]

Just use knowledge virtues in conjunction with scientist colonists and the free hospital options during the game setup. You're kind of forced to give a high priority to technologies enabling health buildings and health improvements to make the most of the knowledge virtues, but its in my opinion a nice and viable path to victory.

 

[Ryika]

I enjoy going Knowledge (with free settler first) but at the same time I clearly see that Industry is just superior. It takes until the midgame for Knowledge to really "do anything" and at that point it doesn't "do anything" that Industry with its much earlier bonuses isn't also capable of. Before Knowledge REALLY kicks in the game is already over (especially because the science-part of the game is over ~40 turns before you actually win the game..).

On top of that it leaves you even more vulnerable because you just don't have the industrial power to push out all the buildings you want AND additional units in time, while Industry usually has this nice phase in the early midgame where you can, at the cost of not getting science via conversion, squeeze out an army or two if you feel like you really have to.