1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Visa fraud vs Diplomatic immunity

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by druidravi, Dec 20, 2013.

  1. druidravi

    druidravi King

    Joined:
    May 30, 2005
    Messages:
    871
    Location:
    Spirit World
    Devyani Khobragade is an Indian diplomat working as deputy counsel general in US. She is paid $4200 a month by the Indian Govt. She hired an Indian worker as maid stating in Visa she would pay her $4500 a month for 40 hours week. But she had drawn up another contract in India agreeing to pay her only $573 per month.

    This was in June 2012 .She is arrested in this month when she dropped her children to school , handcuffed, strip searched ,allegedly cavity searched and placed with 'drug addicts' in a cell for 6 hours before being granted bail .

    This led to considerable outrage in India ,withdrawal of special privileges for US diplomatic staff in India and protests outside US embassy.


    Points against Devyani:

    She knowingly committed visa fraud
    The maid alleges she had to work more than 40 hours a week
    She paid the maid less than what law stipulates in US
    She is accused of a scam in India
    She does not have full diplomatic immunity only for consulate functions

    Points for Devyani:
    The maid agreed to the pay willingly (normal payment in India for maid is less than $200 per month.She was paid three times that)
    She had lodged a complaint against the maid about threatening to blackmail her much before the arrest on July 5th.

    from wiki
    Spoiler :

    Three days later Khobragade, allegedly, was called to an immigration lawyer's office where she is asked by the maid to shell out $10,000, convert her official passport into an ordinary one and help with her visa which would allow her to live in the US.[10]



    My opinion is both the diplomat and maid are guilty. Diplomat gamed the system , committed visa fraud so that she could have a house maid at low cost.

    The maid gamed the system , she went to US willingly . Less than a year later she left the house, brought a complaint against the diplomat and got visa for her children,husband to work in US by claiming to be the victim.
    wiki
    Spoiler :

    After four days, on December 10, 2013, the maid's husband and children were granted T visas, which allow certain victims of human trafficking and immediate family members to remain and work temporarily in the United States if they agree to assist law enforcement in testifying against the perpetrators


    So how should the US have dealt the case?. Should it have arrested the lady and brought the full force of law against her? . Or should she have been just expelled from the embassy?.
     
  2. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2005
    Messages:
    51,331
    Location:
    Stamford Bridge
    What did the maid do wrong exactly? She was promised $4,500 a month and paid considerably less, from what I'm reading... but maybe I'm misreading
     
  3. bhsup

    bhsup Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2004
    Messages:
    30,387
    40 x 4.3 = 172. 573 / 172 = $3.33/hour

    Basically, the diplomat was violating US law. Doesn't really matter what the maid agreed to over in India. The maid gets over here, realizes "Hey, I'm getting screwed" and takes appropriate action? I see no problem with that. Clearly the diplomat knew it was a no-no, else why would she fraudulently put down $4,500/month on the visa application? Plus, really, who cares why she did it? She committed fraud.

    I am not sure if what the diplomat claims about her arrest is different from standard procedure, so not sure if she has any case to be indignant there.
     
  4. downtown

    downtown Crafternoon Delight

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2004
    Messages:
    19,541
    Location:
    Chicago
    Indian diplomats only make 50,000 a year???
     
  5. JollyRoger

    JollyRoger Slippin' Jimmy Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2001
    Messages:
    42,969
    Location:
    Chicago Sunroofing
    My 8 maids a milking cost a tidy sum per hour each and though the transactions are probably in violatoion of local law, the experience is worth every penny.
     
  6. Borachio

    Borachio Way past lunacy

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2012
    Messages:
    26,698
    I know. That's how I've read it.

    So this diplomat was supposed to hire a maid for more money than she makes herself?
     
  7. bhsup

    bhsup Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2004
    Messages:
    30,387
    Looks like a he said/she said situation brewing here...

    http://world.time.com/2013/12/20/devyani-khobragade-scandal-the-view-from-india/

    And now...

    Devyani Khobragade case: no apology, no dropping of charges, says US

    "Supposed to" ?? No... she chose to. Nobody said she had to hire one.
     
  8. Borachio

    Borachio Way past lunacy

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2012
    Messages:
    26,698
    That's not what I meant. I was drawing attention to the fact that the proposed maid's pay maid's proposed pay was higher than her own.
     
  9. timtofly

    timtofly One Day

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Messages:
    9,445
    Should that not of thrown up red flags from the start?
     
  10. bhsup

    bhsup Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2004
    Messages:
    30,387
    That part didn't bug me or send up any red flags at all. Had it been on the up and up, I would have just assumed that she was being reimbursed by the Indian govt or something for the expense of a maid.
     
  11. timtofly

    timtofly One Day

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Messages:
    9,445
    The Indian government would pay more for her maid than for her own work?
     
  12. bhsup

    bhsup Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2004
    Messages:
    30,387
    Her salary wasn't on the maid's form, so there would have been no way for me to know that...
     
  13. bugwar

    bugwar Emperor

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2012
    Messages:
    1,246
    When asked for an apology, the U.S. should have sent the Indian government the following video:


    Link to video.
     
  14. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2003
    Messages:
    33,999
    Location:
    USA #1
    If you are like me and completely at a loss why this matter is even being discussed, this Washington Post article is a must read. Here are some excepts:

     
  15. KmDubya

    KmDubya King

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2008
    Messages:
    632
    Location:
    Nong Bua Lam Pha, Thailand
    The diplomat broke the law and should be charged with visa fraud. I am glad that the maid got her family out of India and can now become American citizens. The caste system is as bad as slavery.
     
  16. Takhisis

    Takhisis Jinping, wer fragt uns?

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    51,998
    Location:
    up yours.
    Yes… the caste system is very bad, but that's not up for discussion here.
    The treatment given to her was unnecessary and humiliating. The prison system generally is.
     
  17. druidravi

    druidravi King

    Joined:
    May 30, 2005
    Messages:
    871
    Location:
    Spirit World
    Well she knew what was she getting into. If you read the wiki she agreed to $600 a month which is 5-6 times more than an Indian maid would get in an equiavlent position. After 6 months , she tried to blackmail the employer to give her $10,000 or she will bring a case against her . There was no physical abuse in the case. She claimed victim and brought all her family to US with T visas.


    I agree what diplomat done is wrong. But should she just have been sent back to India or arrested?.

    Yes, Indian civil servants aren't paid that high. compared to western salaries. But it is high compared to Indian salary/. Though most earn more because of kickbacks and scams.


    Well the Diplomat is from the lowest caste possible , Dalit. So I don't think caste is an issue here.Maid could be at higher caste than diplomat.
     
  18. druidravi

    druidravi King

    Joined:
    May 30, 2005
    Messages:
    871
    Location:
    Spirit World
    I think the main issue here is many people in US do hire cheap Mexican labor and don't play anywhere near minimum salary . Often this is just ignored. I agree what the diplomat has done was wrong.She knowingly committed visa fraud.
    However compared to similar cases of mexican workers , the action taken should have been to just send the diplomat back instead of arresting her.

    Similar cases when US diplomats broke law. If you remember Raymond Davis case , he shot dead 2 Pakistanis who allegedly tried to rob him .A embassy car coming to him killed a 3rd Pakistani . He was arrested , US cried hoarse, and managed to free him without any jail sentence by diplomatic pressure. The case was much more serious in nature.

    In minor cases for sake of diplomatic relations wouldn't it be just better to just expel a diplomat rather than arrest strip search , cavity search or whatever it is. I mean if countries started saying US violated law by conduction espionage against the host country from embassy premises,(from Snowden revelations) and arrested all employees in embassy who didn't have full diplomatic immunity,it would be chaos.
     
  19. metatron

    metatron unperson

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Messages:
    3,754
    Hey, she commited visa fraud. You never know whether she has 17 passports up her cooch until you check.

    Edit: There's a bankster joke somewhere in there. "Too big to cooch" or something. It needs work. But i'm sure JR has this.
     
  20. druidravi

    druidravi King

    Joined:
    May 30, 2005
    Messages:
    871
    Location:
    Spirit World
    Yes one of the main reasons for the uproar is strip searching , cavity searching is a humiliating experience .For most Indians it is like our woman/girl went there and she got dishonored and disrespected by the US type of thing. I don't think there would have been protests, if it was just known she was arrested for visa fraud.
     

Share This Page