1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Visa fraud vs Diplomatic immunity

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by druidravi, Dec 20, 2013.

  1. bhsup

    bhsup Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2004
    Messages:
    30,387
    Nope. Nothing at all can ever overrule a supreme court decision short of an actual amendment to the Constitution of the United States. That's only happened 15 times in the last 200 years.

    EDIT: Well yeah, another supreme court decision. They do change their mind from time to time.
     
  2. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2007
    Messages:
    16,343
    Location:
    Kael's head
    As someone who opposes diplomatic immunity, minimum wage laws, and immigration restrictions that make any sort of visa necessary, I'm really not sure where I side here. Can't we just repeal all the laws that make such conflicts possible?
     
  3. JollyRoger

    JollyRoger Slippin' Jimmy Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2001
    Messages:
    42,969
    Location:
    Chicago Sunroofing
    Well, the Supreme Court decision doesn't mandate strip searches. Just allows them for all suspected criminals and ruskie-lovers. A jurisdiction could decide to legislate differently and the Feds could possibly pass a law that tightens strip searches on a national basis.
     
  4. bhsup

    bhsup Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2004
    Messages:
    30,387
    Right, but they cannot "overturn" the SC decision, which is what druidravi was asking.
     
  5. druidravi

    druidravi King

    Joined:
    May 30, 2005
    Messages:
    871
    Location:
    Spirit World
    I remember reading that smaller bench court decisions could be overturned by larger bench of same court. So could a 9 bench court decision be overturned by a larger bench or does even a larger than 9 bench exist?
     
  6. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The long wait

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2010
    Messages:
    19,890
    The nine justices of the federal supreme court are the final show. You want to force a change in how they've interpreted the law? You can't. You have to change the law. As the law that court interprets is the constitution, then you are stuck needing to amend it.
     
  7. JollyRoger

    JollyRoger Slippin' Jimmy Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2001
    Messages:
    42,969
    Location:
    Chicago Sunroofing
    Some decisions can be overturned by the legislature (see the Lily Ledbetter act legislating around a pretty obtuse statutory interpretation by the Supreme Court). I think a Federal law that limits strip searching would be upheld by the Supreme Court and certainly any such state law would be upheld, thus limiting by legislation what the Supreme Court was unwilling to limit by court order.
     
  8. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2003
    Messages:
    33,999
    Location:
    USA #1
    Besides I can't imagine that it could get by the Republican-controlled House, not that many Democrats don't also support our war on reasonable rights.

    If it really bothered the law-and-order crowd so much and it wasn't deliberately used as part of the retribution for even being arrested, they could always install ultrasound machines at every jail and prison which would do a far better job.
     
  9. Tahuti

    Tahuti Writing Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2005
    Messages:
    9,492
    Gender:
    Male
    "The people want it!"
     
  10. JollyRoger

    JollyRoger Slippin' Jimmy Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2001
    Messages:
    42,969
    Location:
    Chicago Sunroofing
    Take it one step at a time, like first exempting Veterans. It seems many law & order types seem to want to give Veterans preferential treatment during prosecution, sentencing, and incarceration, when in reality, they should demand tougher standards on Veterans since we have spent a good deal of tax dollars presumably teaching them some self-discipline. If you have signed on with Uncle Sam, you shouldn't have to bend over for Sheriff Joe.
     
  11. druidravi

    druidravi King

    Joined:
    May 30, 2005
    Messages:
    871
    Location:
    Spirit World
    Well update on this. Indian govt asked US embassy to report the salaries they paid for the workers they hire . Indian employees are paid $200-$250 per month by the US embassy in India.The salary does not break any Indian law though. The Indian maid in this case is paid $573 per month.



    I simply posted this to mean that it is a case of wage dispute and visa fraud. Much more serious charges of human trafficking and slavery should not be applicable.
     
  12. bhsup

    bhsup Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2004
    Messages:
    30,387
    And what is the cost of living around the US embassy in India compared to the cost of living in NYC? What is the typical salary for a maid working around the US embassy in India? Did any American diplomats commit fraud by lying on official forms about salaries?

    I really don't understand why folks in India are so up in arms over this. One would think they'd actually be glad a corrupt civil servant was caught and exposed.
     
  13. druidravi

    druidravi King

    Joined:
    May 30, 2005
    Messages:
    871
    Location:
    Spirit World
    She's staying with the family , free boarding/lodging.

    Well to most Indians it is case of let her get charged and punished whatever by Indian government , Indian courts. As long as she is an Indian diplomat/Indian representative they see it as a national insult/humiliation when she is arrested/strip searched by a foreign government.
     
  14. ParkCungHee

    ParkCungHee Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2006
    Messages:
    12,921
    Fun fact: According to the Indian Supreme court, diplomatic immunity is waived when a diplomat submits to the Jurisdiction of a court. By filing the false paperwork in the first place, she waived her diplomatic immunity. According to the Indian Government.
     
  15. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The long wait

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2010
    Messages:
    19,890
    So the maid was paid a little less than 7 grand a year? Substantially less than what we consider the working poor to be able to live on in areas far less expensive than New York. At a certain point wages become so low that mobility and rights are limited. Nightmares about the history of the company store(which some companies are desperately trying to recreate) are not out of place. Key questions become: with the wages paid this worker, could she realistically be expected to have the resources to leave the situation if she wanted. If the person in question is moved to an area outside her comfort and competency zone, human trafficing is a legitimate concern. If the wages are illegally low by a significant margain, mixed with perhaps constrained ability to leave employ, then slavery is indeed a concern too. We don't get to write off concerns about slavery just because there are no visible chains or whips.
     
  16. Adjuvant

    Adjuvant Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2011
    Messages:
    1,474
    ParkCungHee, you usually have very good posts and I wanted to read about this point myself after you brought it up. You're correct. I realized, though, after having investigated, none of this even applies to her. Her position in the Indian consulate did not afford her the privilege of diplomatic immunity. So while it is a fun fact, it doesn't apply.

    She is a person in the US who committed a crime. Law enforcement had to make contact with her outside the consulate because that property is sovereign Indian land. She had to be processed (including strip searching, to my understanding body cavity search is an embellishment to the original story) in a manner consistent with any other person entering the system. We can't very well strip search anyone if we only intend to strip search "some" people. That's to say, if we do search some and not others we are showing prejudice.
     
  17. Takhisis

    Takhisis Jinping, wer fragt uns?

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    51,981
    Location:
    up yours.
    No, it's not 'prejudice'. It's part of the preferential treatment diplomatic personnel, as representatives of their states, are supposed to be given.
     
  18. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The long wait

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2010
    Messages:
    19,890
    She was in large part, no? But still, dress up a pig as much as you want, it's still a pig. Prejudicial treatment, or perks, or whatever the hell we call it are still just that even if it's done to grease the wheels of diplomacy. Same as when everyone does it, even if it's for an American.
     
  19. Adjuvant

    Adjuvant Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2011
    Messages:
    1,474
    No. If you vacation in a country for example, you do not have "diplomatic immunity". This privilege is afforded specific personnel and she was not, at the time, such a person.

    edit: It's like you're saying all these people on work visas from Mexico or Canada or whatever are not subject to US law because they're somehow immune as other country's citizens. That privilege is not handed out like that.

    further edit: While they are here, however, they are protected by the same rights, which is what is being exercised by law enforcement on behalf of the personal servant.

    another edit: I see arguments the servant expressed willingness to work under such conditions. That doesn't matter. In the eyes of the law, you cannot tell another person it is ok to break the law. (I mean, if you don't tell anyone, I guess you can do anything, but apparently someone with knowledge informed law enforcement) It's the employer's position to be educated and act according to all regulations.
     
  20. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2003
    Messages:
    33,999
    Location:
    USA #1
    I'm sure this is the tip of the iceberg. People from such foreign countries are used to having a full-time maid who they pay subsistence wages.
     

Share This Page