Visible territory for spawning civs in RFCE

[st.lucifer]

To avoid cluttering existing threads, I'm going to move this here:

Ajinca suggested that the Byzantines should have much of the map known at the beginning of the game, which is quite logical; Miro then suggested that most civs should have some part of the map revealed, both for historical reasons and to help the AI. I agree with the logic here, so this thread is designed to fix this problem:

What territory should be known (if not visible) to each civ upon spawning?

Suggestions are welcome.

 

[jessiecat]

To avoid cluttering existing threads, I'm going to move this here:

Ajinca suggested that the Byzantines should have much of the map known at the beginning of the game, which is quite logical; Miro then suggested that most civs should have some part of the map revealed, both for historical reasons and to help the AI. I agree with the logic here, so this thread is designed to fix this problem:

What territory should be known (if not visible) to each civ upon spawning?

Suggestions are welcome.

If this is easy to implement I agree. My thoughts about the early civs are these.
1. France and Burgundy should probably have France, northern Iberia, the Rhineland and Italy down to Rome revealed.
2. Bulgaria should have the Ukraine, Black Sea coast and eastern edge of the map revealed.
3. Arabia should have the Levant, eastern Anatolia and Red Sea area as far west as Egypt revealed.
4. Cordoba (esp. if we move the flip zone to include Tangier) should have Iberia south of Toledo, Morocco as far south as Marrakesh and the coast of North Africa as far east as Egypt revealed, including contact with Arabia on turn 1.
5. Spain (reflecting their Visigothic origins) should have all of Iberia, France and Italy as far south of Rome revealed and contact with France and Burgundy.
6. The Norse could just have Jutland and Scania revealed. Their ships can explore the rest.

 

[micbic]

Mid-to-late-civs:
Germans should have all of France, Benelux, Germany and West Poland/Czech Republic/Austria/Silesia, and add Lombardy, Hungary and Istria (Pula-Rijeka) for Austrians. Germans know French-Burgundian, Austrians these two, German, Hungarian, Venezian, and Polish.
Portuguese all of Iberia. Enough!!! Let them know the other Iberian guys.
Kievan Rus should have all Ukraine (not Lvov-Uzhhorod area), Azov and Black Sea down to Constantinople, Russia all of Russia (no coastal) and the Belarus-North Ukraine marshes, and as south as Kiev. Kievan contacts Bulgaria and Byzantium, Russia Kiev and Poland.
England all of British Isles. French contact.
Nederlands their home area, Flanders, and everything till Hamburg, Dijon and Paris. Burgundy, French, English and German contacts for Willem.
Hungary... Hungary, Slovakia, Transylvania, North Serbia, Istria, Dalmatia, Bosnia and west Ukraine, and add to that Austria, Czech Rep., Bavaria. Stephen will recieve instant messages by Freddy.
Poland should have all baltica, Poland, Lithuania, inland up to Smolensk and Pripet marshes, and have southern border of revealed area a Vienna-Kiev line. Contacts Kiev and Germany.
Venice all Italy and all Adriatic, Genoa the above plus inland Greece, Constantinople, Tyrrenian till Barcelona and Corsica, Sardinia, Sicily.
Byzantine contact for Venice, Byzantine, Genoan, Burgundian and Spanish for Genoans. Busy mailbox.
Sweden all Scandinavia and southern Baltic, meeting Norse, Russia, Poland and Germany.
Ottomans Turkey, Middle East till Gaza (we have all learnt about this area recently, sadly enough). Nothing more. The two superpowers are more than enough.

 

[3Miro]

Some of the later civs should have all of Europe (except the middle east) revealed.

 

[3Miro]

When you guys decide on the viewable areas, decide for regions and then we will make the areas visible via python. It can be done in the WB, but it would mess up if we change the starting order of some civs.

 

[jessiecat]

When you guys decide on the viewable areas, decide for regions and then we will make the areas visible via python. It can be done in the WB, but it would mess up if we change the starting order of some civs.

The suggestions in the last few posts would make a good start. Do you have some free time soon to add some more wonders and projects as well to the next test version?

 

[3Miro]

Projects and wonders are sedna's department. I will wait for him to do that. I am cleaning bugs (prosecution ones), adding more independent players (will decrease the power of the indeps) and adding a papal player (with no special abilities for now, just a player that will control Rome).

 

[sedna17]

I will immediately commence adding colonial projects and more wonders upon my return to this mod (i.e. after the 15th of this month).

 

[3Miro]

Sedna what do you mean by:
# Sedna17: "Base"/no-effect tech rate is now effectively 150
in RFCE Balance

The code in C++ does: rate *= modifier; rate /= 100;
So value of 100 in RFCE Balance would have no effect. If you have changed the base rate in XML somewhere, then that is independent from the modifiers in RFCE Balance.

 

[sedna17]

Sedna what do you mean by:
# Sedna17: "Base"/no-effect tech rate is now effectively 150
in RFCE Balance

The code in C++ does: rate *= modifier; rate /= 100;
So value of 100 in RFCE Balance would have no effect. If you have changed the base rate in XML somewhere, then that is independent from the modifiers in RFCE Balance.

Sorry, that was confusingly worded. I simply meant that I increased the research costs for all civs in RFCE Balance by 50%. That is, if previously civ X had 100 in this column, they now have 150. That seemed the easiest way to slow down research (certainly easier that modifying tech costs directly). So that comment just means that I adjusted ALL the civs' iResearch values up by 50%. Thus, if you were now to assign a value of 100 to a civ that civ would have _relatively_ faster research than most other civs.

 

[3Miro]

I see. No problem.

 

[civmademepoor]

Hello. May I propose that every civ know where Rome and Constantinople are, if not how to get there, and that Cordoba know where Damascus is?

 

[jessiecat]

Sorry to bump up this old thread but realized something odd about our map while playing as the Norse this morning. Has anyone else noticed that Iceland is completely in the wrong place? It really lies about due north of the SW tip of Ireland, far to east of where we've got it. In fact the southern tip of Greenland should be where we've got it now. We could include both, thus providing another place for the Norse to settle and a jumping off spot to North America. I've played around with Worldbuilder and posted a screenshot below along with the WB save. What do people think?

 

[micbic]

In terms of realism, after consulting Google Earth, the limits of the map are:
West: 29W
East: 40E
North: 63N
South: 28S
So. Iceland should be represented by a tip N-NW of Ireland, and Feroe islands should be added N of Ireland, W of Bergen. Greenland could be added as a colonial project.

 

[jessiecat]

In terms of realism, after consulting Google Earth, the limits of the map are:
West: 29W
East: 40E
North: 63N
South: 28S
So. Iceland should be represented by a tip N-NW of Ireland, and Feroe islands should be added N of Ireland, W of Bergen. Greenland could be added as a colonial project.

OK. Try this version.

 

[3Miro]

I will include it in the next version.

 

[rob-art1985]

Greenland or Vinland as an early colonial project sounds great! Maybe it could be a Norse UHV, to build this.
But we have to think about possible ressources the project should give. Ivory, Sheep and Fur are logical, but all three can be gained in Northern Europe.

 

[3Miro]

Greenland or Vinland as an early colonial project sounds great! Maybe it could be a Norse UHV, to build this.
But we have to think about possible ressources the project should give. Ivory, Sheep and Fur are logical, but all three can be gained in Northern Europe.

Ivory from Greenland?

The Norse UHV is to build a city on Greenland, which is included in the map.

 

[rob-art1985]

I played some civs with the new visibile territory and I think, it's the right way. The new civs are no cavemen or something. They have a lot of tech-knowledge and so they should also know a bulk of the map.
But I don't like these rectangular cutouts, e.g. the Cordobans, which know a very funny part of africa in my eyes. I think it should be the coastal region with maybe 2 or 3 tiles south of it. You always have an eye for details. Go on with this please

 

[3Miro]

I played some civs with the new visibile territory and I think, it's the right way. The new civs are no cavemen or something. They have a lot of tech-knowledge and so they should also know a bulk of the map.
But I don't like these rectangular cutouts, e.g. the Cordobans, which know a very funny part of africa in my eyes. I think it should be the coastal region with maybe 2 or 3 tiles south of it. You always have an eye for details. Go on with this please

Unfortunately it is only possible to code rectangles. All areas simply consist of several rectangles. Some areas (such as Italy) are already nightmarish to code. Sorry, but unless it hampers the gameplay, rectangles would stay.

If you feel strongly about it, you can split the coast into several rectangles and post the coordinates. If you give the bottom-left + top-right coordinates of the rectangles, we I can just put them into the code.