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Vokarya's Workshop: Buildings

Discussion in 'Rise of Mankind: A New Dawn' started by Vokarya, Sep 21, 2013.

  1. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    Fertilizers are not mandatory. They give a small boost. You build the Greenhouse in the Renaissance Era and get the +2 food/+1 commerce. In the Industrial Era, when you add Fertilizers, you get one additional food. It's a way of allowing the Greenhouse to grow a little without having to have another new building.
     
  2. Zeta Nexus

    Zeta Nexus Chieftain

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    Of course I know Fertilizers are not a requirement. I just meant I don't think it needs that bonus.
    Having some agrarian roots using fertilizers in a greenhouse just feels unnatural and unusual.
    But maybe it's just me.
     
  3. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    Here's a couple of speculative building ideas. I was looking at a list of buildings that don't upgrade and I had these ideas.

    1. A "cyber-school" of some kind. At the very least, it would replace the Library (unchanged since the Classical Era), University (Medieval Era), and School. It might replace other science buildings as well. The name "Knowledge Inducer" comes to mind, but there's probably something better.

    2. An upgrade for the Brothel/Casino. I think the name "Pleasuredome" has come up once. There's the seed of an idea here if we can just figure out the specifics.
     
  4. Zeta Nexus

    Zeta Nexus Chieftain

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    I'm all for Trans-human upgrades :) and I'm also okay with "Knowledge Inducer" if there is nothing better.

    That's Master of Orion 2. I suggested that at least once and someone else also did IIRC.
     
  5. Horseshoe_Hermi

    Horseshoe_Hermi 20% accurate as usual, Morty

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    Something like massive internet courses, or having students come in to a building, slipping on a headset/attaching a USB cable and just downloading knowledge?
     
  6. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    How about Knowledge Bank, E-College or Data Centre?
     
  7. Pongui

    Pongui Chieftain

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    Greenhouse: How about a "not buildable between X latitudes" constraint? Because they're irrelevant in the tropics. And hey that could also solve the upgrade problem for those arctic buildings.
     
  8. Zeta Nexus

    Zeta Nexus Chieftain

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    Not if you want to grow non-tropical plants that require a cooler climate.
     
  9. Pongui

    Pongui Chieftain

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    Refrigerated greenhouses? Civ is a "what if" game, yeah. :undecide:
     
  10. Zeta Nexus

    Zeta Nexus Chieftain

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    It's not just a "what if". It's real. Try googling for "greenhouse in the tropics". Many plants don't grow in a very hot climate so ventilation is needed. Others may like hot but dry climate. Greenhouse is the earliest tool for creating a "controlled biosphere"... if you don't count irrigation of course.
     
  11. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    I think there's some impreciseness involved with buildings, and I can see Greenhouse being a short term for lots of subtly different buildings for different plants. This is absolutely how I choose to name techs. Go for the "high points" (like Antibiotics) and sweep the rest under the tech's umbrella. I will never understand any tech being named "X AND Y" (like Drama and Poetry in Civ5).

    The one building that I'm surprised that doesn't have a latitude requirement is the Vacation Resort. The only requirement on it is that it can only be built in coastal cities (with a minimum area of 10 so it has to be built on a large lake or ocean).
     
  12. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    So, more food for thought on upgrades. I made a comprehensive list of which buildings don't upgrade but are so far back that they seem like they should.

    The buildings that I'm not worried about upgrading are:
    • Temples and Cathedrals
    • Civic buildings, although if they do upgrade I wouldn't have a problem with that
    • Corporate Stores; in fact, I think it's better if they do not upgrade so they are still a benefit in the Modern/Transhuman Eras
    • Military Academy and Scotland Yard, as these are nearly National Wonders due to their Great Person requirements.
    So besides the ones we've already talked about (Apiary, Brothel, Library, University), there are two pre-Medieval survivor buildings:
    • First is the Courthouse. I keep thinking Courthouse is a bit of an anachronism as early in the game as it is, and there's room for both a "proto-Courthouse" at Code of Laws followed by the real Courthouse at Jurisprudence.
    • Second is the Jewellery. It does upgrade to the Civilized Jewelers Store, but only if it's active in your civilization. Otherwise, it's a Classical Era building that is still on your build lists.
    Then there are these Renaissance Era survivors.
    • Art Gallery. This doesn't upgrade. I think it could upgrade in the Transhuman Era, but I don't want to give anything more to Holographics. Holographics has a better trick count than 2/3rds of the other Transhuman techs, so it has enough.
    • Cotton Gin. I mentioned having this go obsolete with Synthetic Fibers.
    • Customs Office
    • District Courthouse
    • Metropolitan Administration. This is the end of a long chain and probably isn't available until well after its enabling tech, as it requires a size-25 city and Influential level culture.
    • Monument
    • Museum. A building that upgrades both Art Gallery and Museum at once would be great.
    • Naval Academy. The free Navigation I promotion is the problem here.
    • Observatory. I feel like this should go obsolete once space travel is a reality.
    • Opera House. Possibly an upgrade back to Holotheatre. Opera House is the "high culture" side of the Theatre, and Movie Theatre-Holotheatre covers the "popular culture" side.
    • Tax Office
    I also wouldn't mind upgrading the Zoo, and the School would probably be rolled into whatever upgrades the Library/University.
     
  13. Fozman

    Fozman Chieftain

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    Would Tribunal be a good name for the "proto-Courthouse"? Also, is it a good idea to unleash Courthouse and District Courthouse at the same time? Should DC be moved further back?

    In regards to Cotton Gin, would something like a "Polymer Processing" building be appropriate (think Dow or DuPont)? If so, would another "built" resource be useful with this building (e.g. Nylon)?
     
  14. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    This is possible. DC could be moved back. DC needs to be at or before Constitution when Supreme Court becomes available. Liberalism or Absolutism might work.

    I don't think we really need a new building. One thing that I have considered as an add-on module is "synthetic replacements" for existing luxury resources. For example, "Nylon Plant" would produce artificial Silk resources, while "Aniline Plant" would produce artificial Dye. This might power up corporations too much, though.
     
  15. Horseshoe_Hermi

    Horseshoe_Hermi 20% accurate as usual, Morty

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    Do holograms make a different kind of museum possible? Yes from the technical side, but our abstraction is the role played for society - and its output in yields. It wouldn't be holograms that make Art Galleries cease to be Art Galleries. It would be changes in social organization that lead to different cultural centres.

    Obsolescence for Cotton Gin as you say seems right.

    Good point.

    The university will never be obsolete. It's an institution as irreducible as philosophy.

    . . . so long as we're warranting considerations of realism here.


    Were you thinking there would be a maintenance cost attached to those synthesizers?
     
  16. Zeta Nexus

    Zeta Nexus Chieftain

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    Well... a ski paradise also comes to my mind. Do we want 2 buildings? Vacation resort under X latitude with its current coastal requirements and Ski Paradise above X latitude with Peak and Snow/Tundra in vicinity? Just another idea.

    Not everyone can go to space. I think this building could stay with no trouble.

    Education Centre?
     
  17. Pongui

    Pongui Chieftain

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    Personally I accept Courthouse through the ages same as Palace - it's your current civics that determine what goes on in those buildings. Thus, Washington DC has a "Palace" that's the seat of an elected government. The game doesn't force you to renovate the building nor reform your anachronistic civics.

    Jewellery, yeah it nicely fits a barter economy when the wealth is held by nobles in the form of bling. That gets obsoleted by capitalism. Civ Jewelers Stores are enough to represent the new form of Jewellery... I reckon jewels as consumer goods become a minor constituant of department stores and malls and so forth.

    I think you can roll up Art Gallery, Museum, and Monument and Zoo into the modern "tourist trap", which we lately dignify by calling it an Interpretive Centre. Interpretive Centres worldwide follow this common model: At one end you pay admission and get the back of your hand stamped, then you move through a somewhat freeform series of informative displays, sometimes interactive, sometimes guided; then you exit through a gift shop. Whether it's van Gogh or humpback whales it's the same deal.

    Customs Office at least in my country (Canada) is muddled up with the concept of "port of entry" so I'd suggest it be absorbed by something on the seaport line.

    Observatory: what really blew them away was the Hubble Space Telescope, wasn't it? Is there a way to work that? On the other hand you could say each city owns its share of space telescopes - we do have orbital stuff in cities already.

    If a modern military building grants the free Navigation I, then Naval Academy's will be redundant, so no one minds losing it.

    Opera House is way too flavourful for its own good. It could also cover ballet, poetry cafes, bands on tour, lots of art both high and low. I just want it gone so I can play Sumeria without shame. Horseshoe_Hermi just naturally used the term "cultural centre" and I wonder if a replacement culture building could be called just that?


    Hm. Center or Centre? If you're Canadian the first means position, the second means institution. But I think the rest of the world uses one or the other.
     
  18. Zeta Nexus

    Zeta Nexus Chieftain

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    That said Jewelry could upgrade to Shoping District.

    I like this idea. The name sounds a little too artificial fr the first but... It's up to Vokarya, any way.

    Than how about merging Observatory too into some Labs, to University or to whatever University upgrades?
     
  19. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    It's just "centre" over here and (I thought) in Commonwealth English.
     
  20. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    I worked out the details of upgrading Bazaar to Market. It means a little bit of shuffling Merchant slots. It will also throttle back gold production but save hammers for cities between the Classical Era and the early Modern Era.
    • Market's gold production increases to +25%. This is actually less than the current combination of Bazaar (+15%) and Market (+20%) without being a drawback.
    • Market keeps Bazaar's +1 health from Incense and +1 health from Charity civic.
    • Market does not get an additional Merchant slot. I don't want buildings with multiple specialist slots before the Industrial Era if it can be avoided. Instead some other buildings gain or lose Merchant slots.
      • Caravanserai/Railway Station/Transporter get 1 Merchant slot. This keeps you at 2 Merchant slots for the Classical Era, one from Bazaar/Market and one from Caravanserai.
      • Supermarket gets increased to 2 Merchant slots. The Industrial Era is supposed to have 6 Merchant slots available: Market/Supermarket x2/Hotel/Railway Station/Advertising Agency.
      • Shopping District gets decreased to 2 Merchant slots and Convention Center loses its Merchant slot. The Modern Era is supposed to have 8 Merchant slots available: Shopping District x2/Supermarket x2/Hotel (or Vacation Resort)/Railway Station/Advertising Agency/E-Bank.
    • Silk Road can be built with Bazaar or Market. Silk Road does not count number of buildings, but does require one trade building in its building city.
     

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