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Vokarya's Workshop: Units

Discussion in 'Rise of Mankind: A New Dawn' started by Vokarya, Oct 25, 2013.

  1. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    I'm going to move on to units now that I've made some building proposals. Mostly, I'm fine with the unit roster as it currently stands. I have found some places where a new unit could be worked into the existing units without much disruption. I'm also really looking to expand certain units into full upgrade lines.

    My rule for finding spots for new units is the "rule of thirds". A unit should not be replaced by its upgrade within the same third of an era. I came up with this when I looked at the first chain of Gunpowder units.
    • Arquebusier is early Renaissance.
    • Musketman is middle Renaissance.
    • Rifleman is late Renaissance.
    This gives you a chance to build at least some of a new unit before it gets replaced.

    The biggest problem with adding new units is artwork. A building can get by without artwork (all that's really needed is a button) but a unit has to have models. I've found what I could in the downloads and I've looked at a bunch of mods, so I've tried to do the best I can.
     
  2. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    The Steamer is the first unit that I want to add. This bridges the gap between the Galleon (mid-Renaissance) and the Transport (mid-Industrial). The Steamer is available at Steam Power, so it comes right at the beginning of the Industrial Era. I really prefer the short name Steamer over something clunky like Paddlesteamer.

    View attachment 363593 View attachment 363594

    It's been statted to fit neatly between the Galleon and the Transport, and it also gives an actual transport ship in the Steam Ship category (Galleon is Sailing Ship, Transport is Diesel Ship) and lets you build a semi-modern ship without Oil Products.
    Column 1
    Galleon Steamer Transport
    Cost 130 200 250
    Tech Astro + Nav Cannon Steam Power Automobile
    Resources None Coal/Oil/Oil Prod Oil Prod/Uranium
    Strength 16 24 30
    Move 4 4 5
    Cargo 3 4 4
     
  3. 45°38'N-13°47'E

    45°38'N-13°47'E Chieftain

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    Looks good to me and a very nice idea. But are you aware that Arquebusiers, Musketmen and Riflemen are being discovered mostly at the end of the renaissance era? It looks like AI is researching every other conceivable tech before looking for techs granting those units. So AI moves very quickly from one to the other. At least, that's what I've seen during my testing.
     
  4. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    I'm working with the techs as they are laid out on the tech tree (left-to-right). AI research preferences are a totally separate issue. I just want to make sure that I'm not creating units too close together.
     
  5. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    The Slinger is another Ancient Era unit I want to add. The Slinger is a proto-Archer. When I added Woodworking to the prerequisites for Archery, it pushed Archery out of the early Ancient era and into the middle Ancient, giving enough room for a pre-Archer unit to exist. I chose to assign the Slinger purely to Weaving just to give Weaving a little something extra. I felt like Weaving was a pretty bland tech to start with and wanted to give it something unique.

    View attachment 363793 View attachment 363799

    Here's a comparison between the Slinger and the Archer.
    Column 1
    Slinger Archer
    Techs Weaving Archery
    Cost 20 25
    Strength 2 3
    First Strikes 0-1 1
    City Def 25 50
    Hills Def 25 25
    Ranged Acc 25 50


    I looked very hard to find as many ethnic artworks for the Slinger as I could. I was not able to find any East Asian or Indian slingers. If anyone can point me to a specific mod with an Asian slinger, I'll be happy to incorporate it.

    The Mediterrranean Slinger gets used for most civilizations both around the Mediterranean and into Asia.
    View attachment 363797

    The Balearic Slinger is used for most of Europe.
    View attachment 363800

    I found an African Slinger to use for the African civilizations.
    View attachment 363794

    There is also a Mesoamerican Slinger that gets used for all of the indigenous American civilizations.
    View attachment 363796

    I found specific slingers for England, Denmark (used for Vikings) and Russia.
    View attachment 363795 View attachment 363801 View attachment 363798

    Finally, Greece, Rome, and Byzantium use the Peltast artwork that is already in the game. The name Peltast and the Peltast artwork were being used as a Greece flavor rename of the Archer. I moved this over to the Slinger and found some new artwork for a Greek Archer.
    View attachment 363802
     
  6. Sgtslick

    Sgtslick Chieftain

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    Sounds good. Ancient units did need some work, ur early catapult has helped for sure and now this guy.
     
  7. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    The Ram is a unit that I never intended to stand alone. I wanted to keep my first round of changes to the revised tech tree and the new content needed to keep the new techs from being content-free filler techs.

    The Ram is supposed to upgrade to the Battering Ram. This comes available at Warfare. This uses a more primitive artwork than the current Battering Ram uses. (I know I'm stealing Assyria's UU. I have a new one coming as well.)

    View attachment 363899

    The Battering Ram upgrades to the Siege Ram at Siege Warfare. This uses the artwork that is currently used for the Unique Battering Ram.

    View attachment 363900

    View attachment 363901

    Comparison of strengths:
    Column 1
    Ram Battering Ram Siege Ram
    Cost 25 50 100
    Strength 2 4 10
    Bombard 4% 6% 20%


    The Siege Ram has to be very good at reducing city defenses because it coexists with the Trebuchet throughout the Medieval Era. The Siege Ram cannot attack at all, so it needs to be better at bombarding to be worth building in the first place. One of the key rules of the Ram class of units is that all they do is destroy city defenses.

    Finally, since I appropriated the name Battering Ram for a generic unit, Assyria needs a new UU. The Redu is the best unit I found for this. The Redu is a Spearman replacement that gets +15% Hills Attack (which is not kept when it upgrades to Pikeman or beyond) and free Formation I promotions (which are kept). I actually like promotions for UU's as it encourages building the units (and doesn't feel like getting short-changed when the UU upgrades) and keeping the UU's around to upgrade them.

    View attachment 363902 View attachment 363903
     
  8. Sgtslick

    Sgtslick Chieftain

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    :agree:
     
  9. 45°38'N-13°47'E

    45°38'N-13°47'E Chieftain

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    Looks great to me! :goodjob:
     
  10. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    +1

    JosEPh

    Ps, @45*,
    How long before Baby? Weeks?, Days?
     
  11. 45°38'N-13°47'E

    45°38'N-13°47'E Chieftain

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    If he's on time, 27 days :)
     
  12. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    You do realize that after he arrives your modding time will diminish greatly for the next 3 months or more. ;)

    JosEPh :)
     
  13. 45°38'N-13°47'E

    45°38'N-13°47'E Chieftain

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    I do, but for the moment my job allows me enough free time. I'm more worried if/when my job will change :lol: Anyway I'm testing some more code from C2C but I guess I'll wait for Vokarya to release his next pack before making any real change. I could do a small update in the meatime but most of the dll work can be delayed. Nothing critical besides Koshling's memory saving code. I feel the game is playable enough as it is now, althoug it's far from being complete; what I'd really like to fix is OOS issues on MP games. :(
     
  14. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    So the almost-last unit I want to include are a pair of advanced gunpowder elephant units (there's one more coming, but it's a bit special). I didn't really like War Elephant upgrading to Mailed Knight and there are two artworks existing of elephants with guns that I decided to make into units. I'm also a big fan of extending unit lines and I thought it would be good to have the elephant line extend as far as the horse cavalry line, although there aren't quite so many elephant units.

    These two units are both supposed to be slow pure-attack units. I think a proper elephant unit involves it being Mounted class and speed 1. Horse units should be speed 2.

    View attachment 363950

    Elephant Bombardier becomes available at Gunpowder. It also requires Elephant Riding because it is just possible to get to Gunpowder without ER.

    One thing I deliberately did not do is give Elephant Bombardier any kind of city defense bombard ability. I couldn't justify it on the last Elephant and didn't want to take any abilities away from the Bombardier when it upgrades.

    View attachment 363948

    Elephant Cavalry has the same tech prerequisites (Rifling and Military Tradition) as regular Cavalry. It's a really strong attacker and then upgrades to the Early Tank.

    View attachment 363949
     
  15. Sgtslick

    Sgtslick Chieftain

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    AIAndy is a bit of gun in regards to OOS mp stuff, he'd be the person to get advice from I think. Not sure how often he's online, you'd probably need to pm him.
     
  16. 45°38'N-13°47'E

    45°38'N-13°47'E Chieftain

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    I know and I will ;) It's just that I'm working on other issues now; when I will try and fix OOS issues, I'll have some MP test games to collect some OOS reports and logs, then I'll see if I can discuss these problems with AIAndy. I don't think there are many changes necessary to the dll to solve these OOS bugs; some revisions ago, there were almost no OOS; I just need to find which revision is causing troubles. Technically speaking it shouldn't be really hard. Just a long and boring process. :)
     
  17. platyping

    platyping Sleeping Dragon

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    Python can also cause oos.
    Colonists is an example
     
  18. Sword_Of_Geddon

    Sword_Of_Geddon Mysterious Jungle Warrior

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    In normal A New Dawn there was a unit that came so soon that their predessors were obsolete way to quickly i think. That unit was the "Chivalry". Just thought Id point that out.
     
  19. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    Medieval Era mounted units need some work. The Heavy Cavalry is an elephant unit (heavy attack and speed 1) in horse's clothing and the Knight seems out of place with the Mailed Knight so shortly thereafter. I'd like to differentiate mounted/armored/helicopter units into Light and Heavy lines throughout all the eras, but the vanilla Knight and Tank units wind up in a grey "medium" area.
     
  20. 45°38'N-13°47'E

    45°38'N-13°47'E Chieftain

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    I believe there's a problem with Ram: I don't think it's meant to have the "Can only defend" tag. I can't do anything with it: I can't bombard and I can't attack. Can you check your version Vokarya?

    Edit: I'm talking about the first Ram; I know it's not in this thread but it looked like the right thread.
     

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