Volunteer Army does NOT increase Total Supply

[Barking Iguana]

I looked for this info and couldn't find it, so I tried it in my current game. I'm Venice and thanks to city-states, I'm already at my supply limit. I took Volunteer Army and all of a sudden, I'm -60% hammers.

The increase in supply was the only reason I was interested in the tenet. If the Zulus finish taking the rest of the world, I'll abandon science and march into Ulundi, and the six extra units would make that easier. I have all the money I could want for anything other than busing spaceship parts, and I have most of that, too. I could financially support whatever units I want. The +20% CS is nice, but unless and until the time for war arrives, it's not worth taking a tenet and then having to give away six other units just to keep building wonders.

 

[beetle]

VA is six units are maintenance-free. So that helps your GPT, except that you get six new units, so GPT stays the same. I would not have expected it to increase supply limit.

In my experience, supply limit problems are usually an early game problem (well before ideology). I have hit it though with a dozen-plus GP stacked up. How many CS have you puppeted? Idle workers also count against the cap. What turn is it, and how large is Venice? Now that you have the Foreign Legions, can you not delete a bunch of useless CS pikes? Or maybe, when you write “thanks to city-states”, you mean donations from allied militaristic CS?

You mention the +20% CS. So you have Arsenal of Democracy as well? How many CS are allied with you? Any CS left that are not your allies or puppets?

 

[Barking Iguana]

It was fairly late. I didn't puppet any city-states, but I had allied almost all of them. I had diplo victory turned off because it's too easy, otherwise the game would have been almost over.

I knew this might be an issue, so I saved the game before clicking on the tenet and reloaded when I saw the results. (My rules: no re-loading for bad die rolls, but re-loading for not understanding the game rules is fine.) I went on to win Science because the Zulus were too slow to take on the remaining civs. Conquest probably would have been fewer turns, but more hours. Believe it or not, on Emperor (the highest level I've played) I could probably have won Cultural with only the once city (and Time turned off) if I was willing to still be playing that same game.

 

[Barking Iguana]

The +20% if the bonus in foreign territory that the Foreign Legion troops get. And yes, all but my first few units were from militaristic cities. And I was already giving one away for every new one I got. Venice had about 33 pop at the time. And deleted my sole worker long ago.

 

[beetle]

The +20% if the bonus in foreign territory that the Foreign Legion troops get.

Okay, CS == Combat Strength, not City State. Thanks for clearing that up for me. The FL are nice units, even starting without XP.

Venice had about 33 pop at the time.

That makes perfect sense then. It is pretty easy running OCC to hit up against the supply limit cap. According to this thread, the math is some number plus Cities*2 + Population/2 -- so even two puppets would make a huge difference.

I didn't puppet any city-states, but I had allied almost all of them.

Even for Venice, CS Ally is much stronger than CS Puppet. Which, of course, is why they are so frustrating to play! Aside from DiploVC, at Deity all they are good for is a Space Procurements driven Science win. Venice is very limited, but I keep hoping for a map where I can win by Dom VC with them.

 

[Browd]

Even for Venice, CS Ally is much stronger than CS Puppet. Which, of course, is why they are so frustrating to play! Aside from DiploVC, at Deity all they are good for is a Space Procurements driven Science win. Venice is very limited, but I keep hoping for a map where I can win by Dom VC with them.

I would mildly disagree with this. For Venice, it is almost always vital to max out Venice's population, which will require food routes from puppets and the easiest source of puppets for Venice are CSs bought with GMOVs. The value of a food route from a former CS puppet will usually far outstrip the benefits of allying that CS. (Of course, Venice can also get necessary puppets by conquering cities from other civs, allowing Venice to use GMOVs for CS influence -- hence "mildly disagree".)

 

[beetle]

@Browd, you are actually agreeing with the point I was trying (poorly) to make about how conflicted Venice is to play! It does not matter that CS ally is stronger than CS puppet because Venice must puppet two or three CS or things are quite terrible (as OP points out). I like your idea of using conquered cities for the necessary trade routes and to solve the supply cap problem. My play has never been strong enough for that!

 

[beetle]

Venice is very limited, but I keep hoping for a map where I can win by Dom VC with them.

Inspired by this thread, I tried Venice on a couple back-to-back deity games on watery map (but with hand-picked, decent AI opponents. I cannot get close at all!

 

[Barking Iguana]

I have played Venice many times on whatever level I was up to at the time and found them among the easiest to win with, puppetting either zero or one city until vary late, when I may take a couple more for resources or because someone else has over 400 influence with them. They key is to cherry pick the most useful policies from many tracks and to use trade routes to and ideology to maintain diplomacy with other civs. When you're netting 500 gpt outside of Golden Ages and folks are not DOWing you, the game is not hard.

 

[beetle]

When you're netting 500 gpt outside of Golden Ages and folks are not DOWing you, the game is not hard.

Okay, but what is your VC? Actually, I would be happy to win with them with anything other Diplo and Space Procurements SV. Actually, now that I am thinking about it, I won with them once with an Order SV too. Built three parts, used GE for three, so not too painful. Running Order keeps the AI friendlier.

 

[Barking Iguana]

Yes, diplo is the easy way and space is the alternative. I don't know whether I'd need to step down one level or two to win by conquest or culture. But if I'm moving up to a new level (as I just did with Immortal) Venice Diplo is the easiest first win.

And in the game I just played I was stuck with no only to city-states for trading partners until Astronomy. Only two routes, no science from them. And I won anyway. Not because I'm good; I'm not. Because Venice Diplo is too easy.

 

[zxcvbob]

If you're not playing with OCC enabled, you just need to capture an AI city. Should be easy with 6 Foreign Legion units and a couple of cannons/crossbows/Gatlings, then your unit cap will go up by at least 6. (I got the same nasty 60% surprise once) And you can buy a granary and use the captured AI city for a food trade route just as easily as you can a purchased CS.

I very seldom take Volunteer Army because Arsenal of Democracy is usually stronger and it's not so important to take early. But I took VA in my current game because I got there pretty quick, and also I was delaying researching Rifling so I could build Minutemen longer. The legionaries just stomp everything in their path (but I nearly lost one that advanced too far out of formation and got himself surrounded by lancers.)