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Von Münchhausen Civ 5 SG

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Succession Games' started by Optional, Jul 6, 2011.

  1. Optional

    Optional Deity

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    Starting this thread to hopefully initiate a new SG. I haven't formed any clear ideas yet about what type of SG. The title 'Von Münchhausen' I chose as doing an SG in Civ 5 seems a little 'fantastic', considering the many SG's that have stranded.

    I'm fairly new to the game myself, just got it couple of weeks ago, and have yet to play a full game. I like the idea of an SG for me to get to know the game better. I hope a team of 'young and old' players in terms of experience will form for this SG.

    What the game parameters an objective will be will depend on your input. Voice your ideas!
    Here are my own - very scant - thoughts:
    A small map should be easier to finish, so my suggestion is to go for a small map. What I should mention here also is that my system is below specs for this game, and although I've had little problems yet, larger maps could prove a problem for me.
    I'm thinking of a conventional map type, so fractal, pangaea or continents.
    Victory condition; perhaps Domination? Ideas welcome, also about variants.
    Civilization: any for me, again, this'll depend on your input.
    Difficulty level: something average; Emperor perhaps? That can be rounded up or down, depending on what people feel comfortable with.

    How I like to start: I like to roll a small number of starts, put them up here and let the team pick one of them. I find discussions about start positions interesting.

    Important further notes:
    DLC's: I believe - please correct me if I'm wrong - that DLC's in the game at start-up means all players must have these DLC's. I got the Spain/Inca package and the Vikings. If someone doesn't have those, but would still would want to be in, I think that person should probably start the game, for compatibility reasons.
    If you're interested in this SG, please state which Civs you don't have. Extra map packs don't matter, but civs do.
    Mods are off. I believe even InfoAddict has given trouble with SG's? I'm open to input on this, but unless I hear someone make a convincing point pro certain mods, this SG will start without mods.
    Steam: I don't know for when a new patch package is expected, but it might be that we need our game to be set to working offline by then, considering the hugely disruptive impact that previous patches have had on games in progress. I've also read somewhere that there is the option to set Civ 5 to 'never update' or something, which would also do the trick. Anyway, just warning here that doing something like this at some stage could be crucial to keep the game going.

    The only other thing that I'd like to state for now is that lurkers will be very welcome!

    Okay, you can sign up now... :)
     
  2. grandad1982

    grandad1982 Deity

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    You may not be surprised to learn that I'd be up for another SG.

    I agree about map size and speed of game, so small is good IMO.

    I quite like Fractal maps as they tend to be pangea type but with a more random feel. Indeed some times they aren't pangea like at all!

    I play emperor level so that what I'm going to suggest.

    I have all of the DLC civs so me rolling the game is out the window.

    On the mod front I feel that its ok to use UI mods as long as they don't affect the save. You can find this info in the mods description.

    Patching should be decided upon when we see the next set of patch notes IMO. Its hard to call this till we know whats going to happen.

    Now for the more fun bit!

    There are a couple of civs that I'd like to try since the last patch.

    Hiawatha of the Iroquois. His resourceless Mohawks should kick arse in an early war. Need I say more?

    Egypt. Better odds of grabbing those beefed up early wonders (GL and HG) and the potential to rinse out some culture to play with those new SPs.

    Actually I wonder about Persia as well. Keep the number of core cities down concentrate on culture and :) then smash some people up during those long golden ages.
     
  3. Brichals

    Brichals King

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    You can count me in, always wanted to do one of these. I play King level but I think I could handle Emperor if I've got a team to back me up (also I guess I would put more effort in).

    Info addict may make progress more transparent for the team to discuss, but I never used it. I just know the BAT and BUG mods from Civ4 helped a lot.

    I think we have some time before next patch. I've got all DLC civs but totally fine with somebody else rolling. I'll be up for inputting a fair amount, I've seen how these work, read many an old one from Civ4. Fractal sounds nice, any Civ I don't mind. From the 2 above maybe slightly leaning towards Egypt.
    I think it could be nice learning to pick up some newer players from the steam sale, but maybe make it King then.
     
  4. Optional

    Optional Deity

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    Excellent!
    I'm penciling in 'Iroquois? Egypt?'
    With a 4th player I would start rolling, 5 team members is ideal, 6 possible. It would be nice to be able to put some pics in this thread, and rolling starts = pics! So a 4th player would be very welcome at this stage, to get things going.
     
  5. Emstinson

    Emstinson Warlord

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    I'd really like to get in on one, but I'm on a cruise from the night of the 18th through the morning of the 22nd this month. If nobody else pops up and you guys want to work around that I'm down for a shot. I've got a pretty good record on king and emperor is pretty tough but I figure city specialization has to be the way to get better. Let me know, It's a busy month at work for me but I can make some time and after my cruise it will be back to normal and lots of civ time!
     
  6. Optional

    Optional Deity

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    You're very welcome, Ernstinson! Holidays, work commitments, illnesses etc. will always be there, but don't need to be a problem for an SG in my opinion.
    I don't feel like putting up a strict 24 hrs to say 'got it', 48 hrs to play kind of rule. I've never seen it work like that.

    Communication is key, though. Speaking to the whole team here, if you're next on the roster, I would very much appreciate a post from you within 24 hours. Most people have regular internet access, so that seems a reasonable ask. But if someone needs more time to take a proper look at the save or to play, then I have no problem with that.
    I normally prefer to wait for someone rather than to go for a swap or skip.
    Although it depends on the team, if most of you like a quick moving SG - a turnset being played every couple of days or so - than we can try to meet that. But personally I don't mind if it's like a turnset once a week or so. Although at a slug's pace like that it's sometimes nice if you get a day with 3 people doing a set in day - hey, we're moving again!
    I'm more worried about a lack of posts; lack of discussion and stuff. Input is always a good thing. Even if it's not your set you're still playing - your opinion will always be valued; it's a team game.
    If I may speak for myself, I will probably need your advice often, as I don't know Civ 5 too well. I have a reasonable post count, but it's all Civ III. Also my SG experience is just Civ III.

    roster:
    1. Optional
    2. Ermstinson
    3. grandad1982
    4. Brichals
    5. ?

    I've put you second, Ermstinson, considering that cruise coming up in the second half of this month.

    What I'm used to from Civ III SG's is that each player does 10 turns, but the first one takes 20. But that's Civ III, where you don't even have a unit for scouting to start with, so the first turns you're often just waiting for your first warrior to finish. There's more to do at the start of Civ 5, so 15 turns seems better, perhaps just 10, I'm not sure yet.

    I'm thinking of rolling some starts tomorrow. Any last thoughts on our civ?
    Default amount of AI's and CS's?
     
  7. grandad1982

    grandad1982 Deity

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    Well not a huge amount happens in the very early game so the first set being 20 then subsequent sets being 15 works ok. When more is going on then dropping to 10 is a good idea (makes writing up and note taking less of a chore as well).

    Default civs and CSs is good. We're going small right?

    Well I've stated my 2 main civ preferences, Egypt and the Iroquois. I'm easy over which one. They are both civs I haven't played much so its going to be good to bounce openings and general strategies around for either of them.

    EDIT:
    What do people think of turning quick combat on? I'm in favour.....
     
  8. Brichals

    Brichals King

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    All looks good. If we get some possible starts we can maybe discuss the roster then. I'm really happy going 4th as it's my first SG but I'm away at a wedding in Wales 15-18 July. I guess depending on how fast we start my turn will fall after that or I could go earlier if me being 4th would put my time during 15-18th. After that I am free though, don't have any holidays planned soon.

    Quick combat is also good for me. Also if we are trying not to put too much pressure on the computer system maybe it's necessary. Combat animations have actually slowed my turns a bit in the latest patch (never had much problem before that).

    I'm quite excited to see the starts :)

    Which game speed are we going for, I normally play epic but is standard speed better?
     
  9. Emstinson

    Emstinson Warlord

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    Yeah that works, I have no problem with any civ, I'm a random player anyways. quick combat is a -ok, I spend most games in the strategic mode with no combat anyways. And however we divvy up the turns is fine as well. I've got a pen and note pad from work handy so I think that should be fun and I check in on the site all day at work anyways haha... working from home this weekend so it shouldn't be trouble at all to talk strategy! Yeah my goal in my first one is to learn to deal with the team work issues so feel free to yell at me with whatever is needed.

    I enjoy reading the SG's for the tech discussions and decisions on how large of a standing army to have and the like, All my losses to the AI are within the first 100 turns it seems outside of one game recently so the choices at the start seem to be the major ones. I should be up around 7am est tomorrow so I'll stay glued to this forum whilst I get some fuel in me...
     
  10. grandad1982

    grandad1982 Deity

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    @ Brichals

    I'm guessing standard speed as epic is just to slow for SGs IMO. Its funny I was an epic player of civ4 but I just don't feel right playing civ5 epic speed. The one main thing about the slower speeds I guess is you actually get to use the different era units for a more satisfying number of turns!

    @ Emstinson

    I wish I had a job where I could go on CFC!
     
  11. Optional

    Optional Deity

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    Here are 5 starts! Brichals' slight leaning towards Egypt meant I swung that way, so Egypt it is!

    I was hoping for 5 starts that would be significantly different from each other, but it didn't work out that way;











    Egypt has a starting bias that makes them avoid forest and jungle, and incase you're wondering upon seeing forest everywhere, no, I didn't turn starting bias off!
    They all look quite reasonable at first sight to me, only number 4 is a bit different with its coastal start. Number 1 has coast 4 tiles to the north, as you can see.

    So can we pick a favourite form this?
     
  12. grandad1982

    grandad1982 Deity

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    Starting bias is less effective the smaller the map size. Works best on standard upwards.

    I'll start with the ones I would rule out (lets call the top 1 and the bottom 5).

    1. Its up in the tundra and the lux resources require different tech routes (AH>Trapping and Mining>Masonary). Also doesn't look to be an extra lux to sell (might be in the fog). Low food. On the plus side it may have horses due to the lack of resources we can see.

    4. The only coastal start. If it was the only start I wouldn't object but since we have 5 to choose from.... Also a bit food poor.

    Now for the one I'm on the fence about.

    5. On the face of it a nice spot. Lux are both opened by Calendar. Also the stone will let us build the Stonework's for :c5production: and the :). Good food to. The downside is low production, and since we are likely to want some early wonders this is a downer.

    Now the ones I like.

    2. The lux are opened by the same tech. Going to be good gold with the riverside lux. Food will be good when the riverside is chopped and those chops will be great for an early wonder. Later production may be a bit weak but I can't tell till the warrior moves south. If we settle where the warrior is then we can build Machu Picchu later in the game.

    3. Good food and good production. Not a spare lux we can see but we have a mining resource that is fast to hookup and the insentive to go mining early will let us chop in to a wonder early. I'm not totally sure what appeals about this start but it just speaks to me as a solid long term location.

    Those are my thoughts. Lets hear everybody else's.
     
  13. Brichals

    Brichals King

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    Marble in No1 looks interesting to go with Egypts wonder building. We can't build a stone works on plains though unfortunately. There's not loads of food around but that could be a good Hanging Garden city maybe.

    2 and 3 could be interesting, I don't see anything too unique they just look like decent starts.

    No 4. well I don't often see double whales, could be a good start for a maritime civ but we have no fresh water there unless moving to the oasis and settling 1 turn later.

    No. 5 is also very good, double wine monastery, stone and lots of green and river.

    I think I prefer 1 to go for a wonder based tall empire with HG in that city. That's just my first quick thoughts. I'm quite sure we could get HG without the marble also though, then some of the other starts are maybe even better.
     
  14. Emstinson

    Emstinson Warlord

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    yeah 1 caught my eye, but no grassland/flood plains tiles always scares me... The good thing about Egypt is the Marble is just added bonus to them. So I suppose we don't have to have it. It's also the only one we probably wouldn't need to hit the top of the tech tree right off. The wheat will help and I don't get the marble tile having two food? did they change that in this patch? It looks like tundra...

    2 looks good as well, and if we move to the warrior do we lose the river tile start or does the start tile not have it either? I can never tell with how they bend around tiles. If we do move we have two forest tiles out of the gate to chop and a good mix of food and production around. Not to mention a resource to peddle pretty shortly in.

    3 looks like the surprise start, we'd probably move SW one to get resources closer and give us one more hill farm tile? Bound to be some hidden strategic stuff in that start...

    Yeah getting whales may be the most rare one that I ever see. But the only thing I like about a maritime start is less tiles to be attacked from at full str, and this only has one and no fresh water as you mentioned. Although the oasis would give us a hill farm which is my favorite!

    and 5 looks like the culture start indeed, get lots of population fast and give it a ghandi AI go with defensive buildings and lots of monuments...

    I've never set myself up to pick from a group of starts so I don't know how to prioritize, but I suppose... in top to bottom order... 2, 3 & 1 are tied, 5 then 4.

    But I do agree 1 with the HG would be powerful especially after civil service river farm boost, but our start may seem awfully slow, should be interesting!
     
  15. grandad1982

    grandad1982 Deity

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    If we moved in 2 its still riverside (the gold on the tile gives it away).

    Didn't think about the monastery in 5.
     
  16. Emstinson

    Emstinson Warlord

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    oh haha the river bends south wow... didn't even see it, yeah the gold should have given it away as well as the BIG BLUE RIVER heading south... good times, guess I should have a beer and wake up a little..
     
  17. Brichals

    Brichals King

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    I think we could hit big problems if there is not a good patch close to 1's start as we are luxury poor and as Grandad said we need 2 tech paths to hook up the luxuries we do have. It will also take a while before that city gets going with low food. I also just thought about it, of course marble is good for Egypt, but conversely Egypt don't need it, they have the UA for that.

    A SW move on 3 actually does look good, we have a variety of thing there from high growth to high production and a jungle for university, and next to a desert hill so solar plant can be used. It might be needed to buy an extra floodplain tile if this is the case as with a SW move we get only 1 good food tile in the BRC (big round circle??, just made that up) and the cultural expansion will probably go to the dyes first.

    4 on closer look would give us a hill farm and an irrigated wheat from the oasis.

    Actually it's hard to decide. If I had to pick right now I'd say settle SW in 3. Maybe hook up the gold to give us production for the 1st wonder and cash. Am I right in thinking we don't lose a turn for moving there?

    Just a silly observation, I like that red/orange river plains tile colour in 3 :) I'm not sure I see that often.

    Let's see what Optional thinks after our musings.
     
  18. Emstinson

    Emstinson Warlord

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    3 sounds good to me, southwest shouldn't cost us a turn and it has the added benefit of removing possible desert tiles hidden up north from our working tiles. And mining is a needed tech to clear the forest on the dye so no outrageous tech patterns for our happiness yeah. So I'm down with that one if that's what we'd like to do!
     
  19. grandad1982

    grandad1982 Deity

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    I think the wheat next to the oasis is on desert tile and thus pretty weak (max 4 food I think - irrigation, granary and civil service).

    If we did go for 3 then where to move the warrior before settling? NW of the Dyes or into the desert to see if we lose anything by moving the settler? I don't think there is anything in that desert (barring oil at a later date potentially) so I'd go for the hill NW of dye.

    Are we aloud to see warrior moves in the other starts before we decide or is that just silly :shifty:
     
  20. Optional

    Optional Deity

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    For me there are 2 starts here that seem clearly less than the rest, and that's number 1 - too little food - and number 4, I don't mind coastal at all, but it's the only start without a river, it can't match up to the rest.
    BTW, Ermstinson, the marble in start 1 is on grassland, I zoomed out a bit when I made the screenshots, you'll see it much clearer in-game. So the marble only adds 2 gold, the 2 food was already there from the grass.

    There's not much between 2, 3 and 5 for me, they all look good.
    Number 2:
    I had the same thought, it makes that start a little more interesting. Also brings the sheep within the city radius. And there's an extra cotton we can trade away. That southern cotton is also on the river, otherwise it would have a gold less.
    There are a couple of desert tiles, but I can't argue against this start.

    Number 3: Best thing for me here is the hill-start. No, I would never move a tile SW to settle, settling on a hill is an extra shield every turn and a better defensive position. Those luxes, and also the sheep, are just a few automatic border expansions away, I don't see a reason to move for them.

    Number 5:
    It would be, but I'm not seeing that low production; 3 hills and 4 woods in the screenshot, I guess that's more than what we want to be working.
    I think the one thing that makes this start at least as good in terms of production as the others is that stone. Working that tile doesn't compromise food, and that is a problem with hills and wood. That stone tile, improved, worked and with Stone Works gives 4 hammers on its own, without compromising other interests.
    I'm also noticing the 2 wines each give a hammer, while still also having at least 1 food. I'd rather be working something like that than the gold tile in start 3.

    The Monastery, I don't know how big a thing that is. It's a bonus, I guess, 2 culture per turn, it doesn't cost maintenance, so if you can squeeze that into your build order, than yes.
    I just looked up Egypt Burial Tomb; also maintenance free, +2 happiness, +2 culture and an artist point. Even better than a Monastry! I can't see us skipping those things either.
    It could be hard not playing as a builder!

    To answer that last question: I would prefer to make a pick before making any sort of move. I'm not in a rush to start, though, a 5th player to make up the team is still very welcome - although of course we will start with 4 if no-one else shows up.
     

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