Vote for your 3 civs you would most like to see (Part III : Western Asia) ?

[Liufeng]

Hello everyone, here comes the third poll about your three most wanted civs for Civilization VI, which will be focused, as the title suggests, on Western Asia, which my (again very arbitrary) frontiers are the Caucasus to the north, the Zagros to the east, the Arabian Sea to the south and the Suez Canal to the west. These frontiers exclude some civs that you'll see on another poll like Persia or the Mamluks.
As before, you vote for the 3 civs you would most like to see in Civilization VI (may it be DLC or Expansion packs), and we will see the results. Every week, a new poll will come out, focusing on another part of the world. At the end of this little game, I will display the final results of the polls, and finally see the most wanted civs for Civilization VI.
Don't hesitate to justify your choices, especially if you vote for "other".

If you haven't participated in the two first polls, here are the links.
Part I (Western Europe) : https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...ost-like-to-see-part-i-western-europe.606097/
Part II (Eastern Europe) : https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...st-like-to-see-part-ii-eastern-europe.606569/

I truly thank you all for your participation in these polls and wish you all the best.

 

[Turrdy]

What about Persia?

 

[Lord of War N02]

Shouldn't this be Western Asia?

 

[Liufeng]

Shouldn't this be Western Asia?

You're god damn right ... I'll ask to change the title

 

[Xandinho]

Babylon and Ottomans are my first choices. Although my third choice I has been in doubt between Assyria and the Kingdom of Jerusalem, I have opted for the first, although the second remains a personal wish.

 

[Liufeng]

Now that I think about, I didn't even justified my own choices for now, despite that I'm encouraging others to do so. Here goes my penitence.
Ottomans : Kind of an obvious choice, since they basically control almost the whole West Asia for five centuries ... Actually, their absence from the main game is kind of an outrage ...
Babylon : I hesitated between them and Assyria, but I thought that a more peaceful and and scientific is more necessary than another military civilization.
Yemen : Yemen is a most for several reasons (for me). First, it is one of the rare shia muslim civs, inciting the game to divide Islam at least between Sunni and Shia. Second, it is one of the most long living muslim cultures, in the sense that the yemenit dynasties have been present in that territory for about the XIth century, being finally only conquered by the Ottomans (although it was once conquered by Saladin, but the ayyoubid control over Yemen didn't last its greatest figure) and the british, until the fall of the ottomans. Third, it was one of the most important trade centers, with major cities like Aden, and also a very unique culture between people from the desert and from the mountains. Finally, they have a lady leader who was actually one of the very rare women in theory and de facto a muslim dynasty (and one that is much liked in her home country), who is Queen Arwa, also called the little Queen of Sheba.

 

[Guandao]

My choices are:

Assyria- for a more realistic Mesopotamian civ (Sorry Sumeria ), I actually prefer them over the Babylonians now, a lot of decent leader choices to choose from (Esarhaddon, Ashurbanipal, Tiglath-pileser, etc)

Ottomans- they had a vast empire during their height, perhaps we could choose Mehmed II as leader, if it won't piss off people, how about Roxelana

Others- please count this vote for Yemen, I should've have read the OP slowly

 

[Liufeng]

For those who wonder where are the persians, please READ the description and you'll understand why they're not here but will be in a later poll about Central Asia.

 

[Zaarin]

I voted Babylon, Phoenicia, and Palmyra. If I had a fourth vote, it would be to one of Elam or Urartu.

Babylon: Babylon is the elephant in the room. Neo-Babylon was probably the single most significant civilization in all of the ancient Near East. Assyria was politically distinct, but culturally it was just an extension of Babylon. Persia and Seleucia were built on the foundations of Babylon. Babylon is just a cornerstone of civilization and absolutely must be included.

Phoenicia: The Phoenicians were wealthy traders, bold explorers, and avid colonialists. Their expeditions (if you include those sent by Carthage) made it far out into the Atlantic, reaching Scandinavia in the north and into Central Africa in the south. Their colonies dotted the entire Mediterranean, not just within the Levant but also Cyprus, Malta, Sicily, North Africa, and even as far as Spain. In Tyre and Sidon they were a center of fine craftsmanship; in Byblos a center of learning; in Carthage a center of both culture and aggressive militarism. I think Phoenicia could be a good candidate for dual leaders: Hiram of Tyre and either Hamilcar or Hannibal of Carthage.

Palmyra: I have one word for you: Zenobia. The woman basically told Rome where they could stuff themselves and carved out her own little empire in the East while still maintaining the illusion of Roman control and at the same time forging alliances with Rome's bitter enemy, Sassanian Persia. Zenobia is the best qualities of Cleopatra, Catherine de Medici, and Tomyris all wrapped into one without their flaws. Like Tamar of Georgia, she's an excellent opportunity to include a powerful female ruler without the myths attached to the likes of Cleopatra. Furthermore, civilization in Syria is ancient and worthy of inclusion in the game.

As I said, if I had a fourth vote, it would go to...

Elam or Urartu: Elam and Urartu were regional powers on the periphery of the ancient Near East. Elam was the chief power in southern Iran before the rise of Persia. For much of their existence they were tributaries of Babylon and Assyria, and they were ultimately conquered by the Medes and Persians, but to the east into Central Asia they exerted considerable influence. They were noted for their fine arts, and they spoke a linguistic isolate. Unfortunately their language is poorly attested (or rather, Cuneiform--as is so often the case--seems to be a poor medium for writing it), but I would have no objection to an Elamite leader speaking Aramaic or Akkadian, both of which were frequently used in Elamite courts. The Urartians were located in what would eventually become Armenia, their language related to that of the Hurrians (the vernacular of the Mitanni kingdom, whose nobles spoke an Iranian language). They briefly became a major power in the Near East during a brief decline in Assyria, though they were later conquered. They were known for their fine lost-wax bronze sculptures.

 

[Vahnstad]

Babylon
Ottomans
Assyria

 

[Phrozen]

Babylon, Turks, and Phonecia.

 

[Zatsukino]

I picked ;

- Kingdom of Sheba

- Palmyra

- Phoenicia

I think that civs like Babylon, Assyria or even Persia ans the Ottomans, are already confirmed to be in. They're such too popular.
I'd like to see new faces, it would be so refreshing !

My top 5 of Western Asian civ would be :

- Palmyra (ruled by Zenobia)
- Sheba (ruled by Queen Balkis/Bilqis)
- Nabataea (ruled by Arétas I or Shaqilat)
- Phoenicia (ruled by Hiram)
- Kingdom of Israel (ruled by king Salomon or David)

Oh and i think that you forgot to put the Hittites the Phillistines and maybe Lydia in there. ^^

 

[Lord of War N02]

I vote Babylon Ottoman and Phoenician

I think Seljuk(either Empire or Sultanate of Rum) should be second leader for Turkey while First is Ottoman or Republican leader as Seljuk should be merged with Ottoman as Turkey

 

[Zaarin]

- Kingdom of Sheba

Even if we gloss Sheba as Sabaea, the language problem crops up again. On the plus side, we have a good handful of Sabaean inscriptions; on the down side, they're written in a consonantal script. Which means our options are the not particularly closely related Modern Arabic, or a not particularly closely related Modern South Arabian option. The Sabaeans are, in my opinion, best represented by a commercial city-state of Sana'a, which would function rather like Zanzibar in providing unique luxuries Frankincense and Myrrh.

- Kingdom of Jerusalem (ruled by king Salomon or David)

Wrong kingdom. Solomon and David were kings of the Kingdom of Israel (c. 1000-930 BC); the Kingdom of Jerusalem was a Crusader state in the Levant AD 1099-1291 governed chiefly by Frankish knights. If the Kingdom of Jerusalem were included, I would propose Melisende as leader. Of course, Israel (or Judah) is a conspicuous absence on the poll, as are the Hittites.

I vote Babylon Ottoman and Phoenician

I think Seljuk(either Empire or Sultanate of Rum) should be second leader for Turkey while First is Ottoman or Republican leader as Seljuk should be merged with Ottoman as Turkey

There was no cultural or political continuity between the Seljuks and Ottomans, though. They didn't even speak the same language or come from the same area of Central Asia. They simply both happened to be mercenaries hired by the Arabs. The Seljuks established petty kingdoms in Asia Minor, while the Ottomans carved out an empire there.

 

[Zatsukino]

Yes you're right, sorry for the BIG mistake i did !

About the Sabaean language, i don't think it will be a real problem, historians and many archeologists found many ancient sabaean texts, this language have many similarities with ancient south-arabian language and modern arabian, like you said, because this language is the ancestor of all the language in the Arabic peninsula, and some of ethiopian languages and others from the corner of Africa.

I found a video on YouTube about how this language sounds :

 

[Liufeng]

Palmyra: I have one word for you: Zenobia. The woman basically told Rome where they could stuff themselves and carved out her own little empire in the East while still maintaining the illusion of Roman control and at the same time forging alliances with Rome's bitter enemy, Sassanian Persia. Zenobia is the best qualities of Cleopatra, Catherine de Medici, and Tomyris all wrapped into one without their flaws. Like Tamar of Georgia, she's an excellent opportunity to include a powerful female ruler without the myths attached to the likes of Cleopatra. Furthermore, civilization in Syria is ancient and worthy of inclusion in the game.

Well, I may have picked Palmyra if it wasn't for Yemen. My problem with Palmyra is that I'm not a fan of one person empires. By one person empires, I mean very short living empires that only lasted with their most proeminent figure. That's why why I'm not a fan of adding civs like Palmyra, the Timurids, the Huns or the Ayyubids, empires that were in their summit with one great ruler (most of the time the founder), and then have Fallen into oblivion. Palmyra may have been a great empire under Zenobia, but that's all. It was Nothing special before, and it collapsed as soon as Zenobia passed on. The empire lasted for like 40 years or so ...
Yemen, on the other hand, is a "state" that has seen several succeding dynasties, which guaranteed a territorial stability, losing some and winning some, for about 5 centuries before its conquest by the Ottomans. It also has its living contemporaneous reference, which is the country Yemen. And mostly important, Yemen had one very strong figure, the Ismail'i queen Arwa, who was a very powerful leader who reigned for more or less 60 years, in which she developped the country economically and the territory, while taking many constructions policies.
For those reasons, I far prefer Yemen over Palmyra, but that is still my own opinion.

 

[Ikael]

My picks!

Babylon: One of the most important civilizations of the middle east region, if not the entire world, they had a massive influence at shaping the ancient world and the concept of civilization as of itself.

Ottomans: Along with Persia, the Ottomans occuppy the "why the hell weren't they included in vainilla?" top spot. The Ottomans had a massive, cullturized empire, and without it is impossible to understand the history of both Europe and the Middle East, not to mention that its modern day sucessor is still a quite powerful country nowadays (Turkey) so they surely did stand the test of time.

Phoenicia: At least some phoenician civilization must make the cut. They were expert traders, sailors and artists, and they played a major role in the entire Mediterranean region for centuries.

 

[Guandao]

Liufeng, one question, Why are the Hittites absent from the poll? Was that intentional? If I had a fourth choice, I would pick the Hittites. They interacted with Egypt during its New Kingdom period, fought the Battle of Qadesh with them. Spoke a language belonging to the Anatolian branch of the Indo-European language family, and Hittite is one of the earliest attested Indo-European languages. And Firaxis has recognized them by making Hattusa a Scientific city-state.

 

[Quoth the Raven]

I voted Assyria, Babylon, and the Ottomans. Other West Asia civs that I would like to see are Persia, Oman, and Israel.

 

[Liufeng]

Liufeng, one question, Why are the Hittites absent from the poll? Was that intentional? If I had a fourth choice, I would pick the Hittites. They interacted with Egypt during its New Kingdom period, fought the Battle of Qadesh with them. Spoke a language belonging to the Anatolian branch of the Indo-European language family, and Hittite is one of the earliest attested Indo-European languages. And Firaxis has recognized them by making Hattusa a Scientific city-state.

My mistake. I was convinced I did add them in the poll, ans convinced they were in it. I got all wrong in this poll, between forgetting the Hittites or writing eastern Asia instead of western Asia ...