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Vox Populi Diplomacy Feedback

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by HeathcliffWarriors, Nov 25, 2019.

  1. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    Being closer also means acknowledge each other for longer, so accounting the time they made allegiance makes sense too and perhaps it's faster to calculate.
     
  2. HeathcliffWarriors

    HeathcliffWarriors King

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    I'm thinking of adding a proximity multiplier to non-neutral approaches.

    By the way, let me know what you all think of AI diplomacy in this version! I made some significant changes, which should hopefully be noticeable. :)
     
    vyyt and lunker like this.
  3. civplayer33

    civplayer33 King

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    Are the DP valuation changes in this version or the last one already (12-1-1)? Germany just asked me for a DP right after starting to hate me (GUARDED was already there, now with "Your behavior angers them" added to the opinion list and CS competition modifier increased, though the CS thing may have happened on the turn after their DP offer)...I am strongest in military and close to them but if I were Germany I would have used the current situation to declare on the Celts (who I'm actually playing as) rather than form a DP, since the Celts just declared on two of their other neighbors and if they manage to win this war in any significant way the game is gonna be pretty much decided.

    Instead, the Celts can now rest assured that Germany won't be bothering them while they dismantle the other two, which will mean that when I come for him next there will be no one close to help him or distract me.
     
  4. HeathcliffWarriors

    HeathcliffWarriors King

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    Yes, the valuation changes are in this version. The AI is allowed to backstab DPs, so don't rest entirely assured.
     
    civplayer33 likes this.
  5. Tarzan737

    Tarzan737 Warlord

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    is it possible to do something about the WC votes? even civilizations that declare a friendship with me votes for a sanction against me
     
  6. lunker

    lunker Warlord

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    PLEASE add this! I like to play civ as a friend simulator but they always have to be so far away...

    I've tried out asking for DoF's but since AI comes to you right away when it wants one, is there any point in asking?

    And when it comes to DP's I've been finding that they are available a little more often. Thanks for the fixes!
     
  7. HeathcliffWarriors

    HeathcliffWarriors King

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    I don't know much about the logic, but I know they will vote to sanction players who are doing too well.

    The AI has a 30-turn cooldown between asking for a DoF, so if you reject them they won't ask again for a bit. They also update their willingness each turn, so you may get lucky in your timing. You can ask as often as you want now with no penalty.

    Making civ a friend simulator is not quite what I'm aiming for (I'm aiming for competitive AI) but I can see the strategic sense in seeing nearby friends as valuable - sometimes.

    Glad DPs are more available!
     
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  8. Kim Dong Un

    Kim Dong Un The One & Unly Supporter

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    I'm here to tell you that friendship can be achieved, and if Supreme Glorious Leader can maintain peace, anyone can...

    Although there was tension at times, I managed to finish my last game (Emperor) on friendly terms with 2 out of 3 neighbours (Dutch and Siam) on my continent. The entire continent adopted my religion (Siam founded, but was overcome by pressure). I was initially friendly with Japan to my south, but as the game played on and Japan inevitably tried to attack me, a friend block formed between the 3 of us against him. Mind you, I had to tiptoe around a Dutch denouncement during mid-game, but eventually friendship and freedom prevailed as Japan continued to war against them; we all went Freedom while he chose Order, further cementing the diplomacy.

    I played peaceful the entire game aside from puppeting a Spanish city after Isabella refused to not settle a small island off my coast containing vital coal and iron. I also claimed some land with a citadel during my only war against Oda, but I believe that no longer has negative implications if the land is taken during war. My military was kept at the cap with advanced units for the majority of the game. The diplo felt really nice and I can't wait to start a game with the new tweaks / improvements. Keep it up Heath!
     
  9. Teholb

    Teholb Warlord

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    In this latest version, 12-20, I've found that garnering early DoF through attractive trades, caravans, and strategic enemy-of-my-enemy denouncements, I can cement blocs much more easily. I agree to go to war when my nearby friends ask me (with turns to prepare, of course) and this convinces them that I'm a good guy. My last game as Theodora saw my religion snowball to 35 cities, with the Celts being the next highest at 10 cities. This is late Renaissance era on a Standard Communitu Pangea, Emperor AI.

    My lovely followers proposed, and then voted, to have my religion become the World Religion. I didn't have to fight much at all, despite being told my military was too weak many times, even by 'hostile' neighbors. I'm loving the increased significance of Diplomacy in this latest iteration, @HeathcliffWarriors . I'm gonna have to play a Rome game soon and see how the warmongering side feels!
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 23, 2019
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  10. HeathcliffWarriors

    HeathcliffWarriors King

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    I'm glad that you're enjoying diplomacy more. :)

    I do get the impression from your feedback and screenshot that the AI might not be aggressive enough, if your military was weak for the entire game and hostile AIs weren't DoW'ing you, but you also indicate you employed a lot of strategic diplomacy tactics, in which case it may be functioning as intended.

    There are also games where the AI fights more among themselves and the human just happens to have an easier time of things, so one can't make too many judgements based on a single game.
     
  11. HeathcliffWarriors

    HeathcliffWarriors King

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    Hmm, there do seem to be some minor issues with the diplo AI (some advanced options aren't working properly, for instance), but nothing that should make the game unplayable. I'll do some debugging this version.
     
  12. TranceBlossom

    TranceBlossom Warlord

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    Just to give my own anecdote, I'm playing a wonderwhoring tradition game as Korea, and early game I neglected my military to get more wonders, and ever since I've been in a state of constant war even after mass producing units to defend my cities. I suspect the AI has formed a bloc against me in particular, because I'm getting swarmed with declarations of war from all sides. Thank god I settled very defensively, or else the game would've been hopeless. The AI (especially Montezuma) only rarely declares peace too, even after decades of throwing units into my meat grinder of hwacha.
     
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  13. HeathcliffWarriors

    HeathcliffWarriors King

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    I programmed the AI to severely punish wonderspamming in this version (and to a lesser extent, tech beelining). It sounds like the AIs have formed a bloc against you and consider you an easy target, so they're significantly more reluctant to make peace. They may also be dogpiling you deliberately. Functioning as intended.

    Teaching the AI about how defensible a location is terrain-wise or having it remember the results of past wars is difficult to accomplish, unfortunately.
     
  14. TranceBlossom

    TranceBlossom Warlord

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    I've only played this one game on Emperor (only in Industrial now), but it has felt like at least one difficulty level higher than before, at least with this tradition + wonderspamming strategy. Again, I don't wanna rush to judgment after half a game, but the AI REALLY hates me, and it's an uphill battle harder than a tradition game on emperor has ever felt before. I haven't updated the diplo files you mentioned in the beta thread yet, I've only been playing with the original beta file; will that make a significant difference either way?
     
  15. HeathcliffWarriors

    HeathcliffWarriors King

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    If you're using the 12/20-2 hotfix, it may make a difference, yes. Can't really be sure of how much, but it contains all the VP opinion weight changes.
     
  16. TranceBlossom

    TranceBlossom Warlord

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    Just out of curiosity, what sort of changes are included in the MissingFiles.zip files?
     
  17. HeathcliffWarriors

    HeathcliffWarriors King

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    There's actually an issue with those files, apparently they weren't added to some kind of database queue, currently investigating.

    But to answer your question, it includes all the VP changes to AI opinion modifiers, as well as my advanced diplomacy options.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2019
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  18. Yaviel

    Yaviel Chieftain

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    I would really like to see such important changes added to the patch notes.
     
  19. HeathcliffWarriors

    HeathcliffWarriors King

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    Much of it is due to the AI's increased desire for opportunity attacks on weak opponents, which I've mentioned numerous times in my changelogs, so technically speaking it was already the case. It was intensified this version for civs that are seeking a cultural victory, though (as part of strategic diplomacy changes).

    I'll post relevant information on the wiki soon.
     
  20. Teholb

    Teholb Warlord

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    For this game, which was run on the 12-20-1 version (I'm not sure which version does/doesn't include your alterations), I do feel that I had an easy run of it. Very early on, Washington asked for DoF and a war against the Zulu. That friendship lasted for quite a long time, even though he eventually began forward settling me. However, I do feel that my use of the bay as my primary settling grounds may have helped alleviate territorial disputes- I had God of the Sea, so it was great for me, but IIRC the AI does factor in whether they actually want the territory you're settling, right? Persia settled Ecbatana shortly after I settled Nicaea, and that's when he began insulting my military. Every time he threatened me, I would just build more garrisons and defensive buildings, but I also was giving William to his west A LOT of trades, fueling the war machine. He was at war with William, just as Zulu was at war with Washington, for most of the game.

    My friend was playing Korea in this game, and he was declared on by the Celts, with China regularly threatening him, but the Zulu were too busy with Washington to bother him. I think Wu Zetian was just too weak to really do anything, but it did seem odd that she never declared, as she didn't have any natural enemies to play off of. Once the version (12-20-3?) with all the fixes is released, I plan to play a more aggressive game to see how the AI responds. They were definitely declaring amongst themselves constantly, so I'm not certain that they're overly friendly. Like you said, a lot of it was probably my luck that game.
     

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