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VP Civilizations Mod Proposal

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by ripple01, Mar 15, 2017.

  1. ripple01

    ripple01 Chieftain

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    I'm probably stating the obvious here, but Vox Populi includes at least 1 expansion pack worth of content and is really the de facto "3rd expansion" for Civ5. The only thing VP doesn't have that a typical expansion pack would have is extra civs. I'd like to propose a community mod that adds this missing component to VP. Enginseer has done some great work making some mod civs "VP compatible" by balancing them with VP. I'd like to see this taken further and have a full expansion pack's roster of civ's added to VP to really round it out. Additionally, I think it would not be out of the scope of this mod to revamp a few of the existing civ abilities to make use of some of the extra features VP has added that are not currently being used (CSD and Vassalage) or include these mechanics in the new civs.

    Civ 5 shipped with 18 Civs
    Gods & Kings added 9
    Brave New World added 9
    DLC added 7, BUT I suspect that Sumer and the Hittites were actually intended to be released as full civs at one point. They are virtually complete except for animated leaderheads)

    I would propose for this project adding Sumer and the Hittites to bring the DLC total up to 9, and then adding another 9 civs, as that is most likely the number Firaxis would have chosen had they made a 3rd expansion pack.

    I don't have the skills to make this mod come to fruition, but would be happy to assist in a planning/coordination capacity depending on the interest. At this point, I'd just be interested in hearing from other users if this is something that sounds cool.

    Thanks for reading!
     
    StugLife likes this.
  2. FoxOfWar

    FoxOfWar Chieftain

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    ...while it would indeed be a nice addition, I feel it might be just slightly out of scope given how far the mod is at the moment. Anyone is free to create compatible civs, at any rate.
     
    HappyCompy likes this.
  3. SLGray

    SLGray Chieftain

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    The default civilizations can use the vassalage system. What exactly do you want them to do with it?

    P.S. Sumer was included in a scenario, but you can not play them outside of the scenario.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2017
  4. Starrynite120

    Starrynite120 Chieftain

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    I can tell you right now no one officially working on the mod is going to do this. Gazebo has explicitly stated he is not adding any new features and is simply working on balancing, bugfixing, and AI until it can be labeled done.

    Also existing civ abilities have already taken new features into account. See Arabia for a good example. I believe Gazebo has also said he is intentionally not making any civ's do anything specifically with CSD, though I cannot remember why.
     
  5. ripple01

    ripple01 Chieftain

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    I am fully aware that no one officially working on the mod would take this on and that Gazebo is trying to put the finishing touches on the project. What I am envisioning would be a mod-mod, I guess, that would strive to be of the same quality as VP and integrate as seamlessly as possible.

    I believe Gazebo stated that the reason didn't want to feature civ abilities using vassalage or CSD was to avoid fragmentation and to avoid having to maintain two separate sets of code bases for people who are using the vassalage and CSD components and people who aren't. The mod I am envisioning would require the full VP and thus could make these changes without these issues that Gazebo wants to avoid.
     
  6. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch

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    As always you all have my blessing to do what you want. Keep in mind, though, that VP essentially comes with 40+ new civs, as they've all been reworked.
     
  7. StugLife

    StugLife Chieftain

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    Nice idea and certainly worth discussion. Can we reach a consensus on what those 9 civs would be and what unique abilities/buildings/units they should have? Who knows, perhaps volunteers will show up along the way and help put this into effect.
     
  8. ripple01

    ripple01 Chieftain

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    I think a good start would be to put out some ideas of what the 9 civs would be before getting into the uniques. VP has a design choice of only one unique building per each regular building (for example, there is only 1 UB replacement for the Temple, 1 UB replacement for the Barracks, etc.) and I think it would be very hard to continue this if you are adding 11 more civs (Sumer and Hittities + 9 TBD). For UU's it is a little different, there are multiple UU replacements for some units (3 for Swordsman, Tercio, Knight, Spearman, and Cavalry and 2 replacements for Comp Bowman, Musketman, and Longswordsman). I think we should avoid adding 3 civs with Swordsman replacements, for example, to keep the numbers somewhat as they are.

    I'm going to put out a short list that could be narrowed down to 9 and would be interested in hearing others opinions on what civs would comprise an "unofficial expansion pack" roster:

    Kongo
    Vietnam
    Israel/Hebrew (focusing on Ancient Israel/Judea)
    Hungary/Armenia/Bulgars
    Tibet (might be cool to have one more civ that could do cool stuff with mountains; I think we could come up with some cool bonuses to differentiate them from Inca)
    A Native American Civ (I'd love to do the Pueblo/Anasazi, but don't know how others feel about that. Haida or another Pacific Northwest civ could be cool too. Sioux may be too close to Shoshone, Cherokee could possibly be another option )
    Nubia
    Khmer
    Nazca (mod version has 2 UB's which would need to be adjusted)
    A Colonial Civ (Australia, Canada, Argentina)
    A Silk Road Civ (Khazars?)


    I believe all of these civs are available in mod versions; I know Enginseer has done VP compatible versions of Vietnam and Nubia already that could probably pretty much be brought in as-is.
     
  9. Enginseer

    Enginseer Salientia of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Also, Israel that might be released later... anyway. People need to report some inconsistencies such as when the default wall building gets changed and no one tells me so the UB for them remains outdated and/or imbalanced! :mad:
     
  10. Wodhann

    Wodhann South American Norse God

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    Honestly VP is such a high profile mod I would only be pushing for it being packaged with new civs if each one had unique leader screens and VO dialogue and polished unique elements and such. As in, if it was something top notch that wouldn't stand out from the Firaxis ones as being "incomplete" or custom looking.

    As it would be absolutely insane to do all that work, I'm pretty ok with it not coming with new civs.
     
    Asterix Rage and vyyt like this.
  11. ElliotS

    ElliotS Warmonger

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    I think we should add anime civs, and bundle it in the installer as part of full VP. I vote for Boku no Pico 9 times.

    Seriously though I'd never use a custom civ that doesn't have VO dialouge, leader screens etc. So no go unless that can get done from me.
     
  12. ripple01

    ripple01 Chieftain

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    I took a quick stab at putting together a civ list for this proposal, leaving 2 spots blank for suggestions. The uniques listed here mostly follow the mod civs that are available. There is definitely room for discussion on changing these, I just wanted to put something out for a starting point for discussion.

    And just to reiterate, I am not calling for this to be bundled with VP; I agree with Wodhann that it would be nigh impossible to get something up to Firaxis standards, especially with the difficulties in animated leader head creation. . The concept here is a mod-mod for anyone interested in adding balanced, polished (as much as possible) civs to VP.

    I think a good place to start would be taking Tomahtek's Sumer and Hittite civs and tweaking them to mesh with VP. They are both well done civs that could be easily adapted.




    1) Sumer

    Leader: Eannatum

    UA:

    UU: Vulture (replaces Warrior)

    UB: Ziggurat (replaces Temple)


    Ur city state replaced by Ashkelon



    2) Hittites


    Leader: Suppiliuluma

    UA:

    UU: Huluganni (replaces Chariot Archer)

    UB: Bloomery (replaces Forge)




    3) Vietnam


    Leader: Trung Sisters

    UA:

    UU: Viet Cong (replaces Infantry)

    UB: Water Puppet Theatre (replaces Theatre)


    Hanoi city state replaced by Phnom Penh




    4) Kongo


    Leader: Ana Nzinga

    UA:

    UU: Pombo (replaces Pikeman)

    UB: Raffia Mill (replaces Mint)


    Mbanza-Kongo city state replaced by Kumasi






    5) Israel


    Leader: David

    UA:

    UU: Maccabee (Swordsman)

    UI: Kibbutz


    Jerusalem city state replaced by Jericho





    6) Hungary


    Leader: Stephen I

    UA:

    UU: Hussar (replaces Cavalry, Austria gets the Dragoon)

    UB: Vegvar (replaces Castle)


    Budapest city state replaced by Troy




    7) Tibet


    Leader: Songstan Gampo

    UA:

    UU: Himalayan Cavalry (replaces Knight)

    UB: Chorten (replaces Shrine)


    Lhasa city state replaced by Kandy





    8) Nubia


    Leader: Piye

    UA:

    UU: Apedemak Archer (replaces Archer)

    UI: Royal Pyramid







    9) Australia


    Leader: Henry Parkes

    UA:

    UU: Digger (replaces Great War Infantry)

    UI: Outback Station


    Melbourne city-state replaced by Suva (Fiji)

    Sydney city-state replaced by Port Moresby (Papua New Guinea)



    10) ???




    11) ???
     
  13. Blue Ghost

    Blue Ghost Chieftain

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    I am all for more civs added to VP, but somebody's going to have to do the work of coding them. Enginseer's been doing a great job adding balanced civs, and I've been trying to contribute some. 11 new custom civs is a huge amount to ask, and I doubt there's anyone here with the capacity to take on a major project like that. I could try to take on one of them when I have the bandwidth, which with my current projects isn't going to be anytime soon. If you're proposing a major project like this, best way to see it done is to do it yourself.

    What's wrong with the civs that Enginseer's already done?
     
  14. ripple01

    ripple01 Chieftain

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    Absolutely nothing wrong with the civs Enginseer's done already (Vietnam and Nubia of the ones listed here). They could be brought in virtually as-is to this project with proper credit given of course. He is doing exactly what I am hoping to do with the other civs on this list.

    I have neither the time (I run my own business and have 3 kids) nor the programming skills to do this myself, though I wish I did. I am trying to provide a spark of inspiration for anyone in the community who would be interested in seeing something like this. I am happy to help out in an advisory/organizational capacity in any way I can if we can garner enough interest.

    I'll post some more thoughts/ramblings later today when I have a little more free time.
     

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