VP Forum Improvement Suggestions

[Recursive]

Advertising aside... any reason why there couldn't be an OT subforum for VP? I'd rather discuss books or whatever with the people I see around here than with ones too ignorant to play VP.

Hmm, I don't think any of the subforums on this site has a specific OT section. I believe CFC just has the one for all things off topic.

My initial thoughts are that this is something that could be better accomplished in a Discord server or something like that.

 

[azum4roll]

My initial thoughts are that this is something that could be better accomplished in a Discord server or something like that.

This. So, when are we getting one?

 

[Recursive]

This. So, when are we getting one?

There is an unofficial one run by Enginseer, but if people want an official one I could set one up.

 

[Stalker0]

There is an unofficial one run by Enginseer, but if people want an official one I could set one up.

I'd say we just use that one and make it official, as a number of people already use it.

 

[tu_79]

In my experience, the forum interface does a good job of giving alerts to the threads you are reading, regardless of where they are located.
The problem comes with new threads.

What I expect to see in the general thread is announces to new releases, new ideas, maybe some let's play and general advice. Bugs are usually discussed in the same thread where the discussed release is published, and that makes sense since probably the bug that is pestering you is caused by the last release. It's a good way to curate bug reports, imo, as long as someone remembers to post it later in github.

The problem with the qqqa thread is that, being sticked, it's hard to spot new posts unless you are following the thread and received the alert. Or you have a reason to open it. (I see you have already changed this)
How to install and FAQ, are clearly threads that you don't need to be aware of new comments, but they must be readily available.

The only suggestion I have about the subfolder organisation is to unify them in general purposes.
For example, wanting to learn how to play. Let's say I'm a newby that's is out of the league, where should I look for improving my playstyle?
Currently you have three locations: The sticked tutorial, the Strategy subfolder and the Playthroughs.
I would have all of them in the same place. Call it Learning how to play, how to play, or something alike.

Then, another purpose would be to tweak Vox Populi, which is currently under the two balancing subfolders. This is not just balancing the mod, sometimes new features are being made, or some mechanics are modified to make them better for the user experience. I would put everything related to this under the same folder. Call it Suggestions. Or Balance and Mod Suggestions.

Submods Repository is perfect on its own. It does its job.

Then I would follow the above suggestion to group all the release announcements into the same folder. Call them releases.

So, this is how it would look:

Where to post and forum rules (sticked thread)
1 Release Announcements.

How to install (sticked)
Bug Reports (sticked)
Github Repository (sticked)
Bug discussions and hotfixes in the relevant thread.​

2 Learning Vox Populi

Tutorial (sticked)
FAQ (sticked)
Playthroughs folder
Strategies folder​

3 Suggestions

Leader Balance
General Balance​

4 Mods Repository

Compatible Mods (sticked)​

Main threads

Give the option to move posts in the main page to the relevant folder, if they are not generic enough.

 

[azum4roll]

Playthroughs are sometimes used to showcase modmods or balance issues, and are completely not for learning VP. The playthrough subforum should remain as is.

 

[Hinin]

Playthroughs are sometimes used to showcase modmods or balance issues, and are completely not for learning VP. The playthrough subforum should remain as is.

I agree with you on that point, but I quite like the rest of tu_79's organization, as it gives clears indications of what to look for in each "folder" (and incentivizes their use). I think it would give a good base structure, and could later be refined depending on what problems arise.

What would be put in the front page for the "Community Patch Project" though ? Also, should the subforum still be named "Community Patch Project" and not "Vox Populi" now that we're talking about reworking it ?

 

[tu_79]

Playthroughs are sometimes used to showcase modmods or balance issues, and are completely not for learning VP. The playthrough subforum should remain as is.

Learning and Playthroughs, then?

Maybe they are not just for learning, but I see how players watch them for improving their own strategies. I don't think that featuring a few modmods is truly relevant. But then I don't have the patience to watch them, so you might be right.

 

[pineappledan]

There is an unofficial one run by Enginseer, but if people want an official one I could set one up.

I'd say we just use that one and make it official, as a number of people already use it.

Just to clarify:

If you're discussing discord, there are already two: a vox populi discord (which is pretty dead) and the VP modders Discord. If people want a discord, please direct them to the general VP discord.

The current channel that everyone is currently using was made for modders to talk about their modmods to critique, coordinate, and collaborate. It's not for the general VP players or for bug reports.

 

[Recursive]

In my experience, the forum interface does a good job of giving alerts to the threads you are reading, regardless of where they are located.
The problem comes with new threads.

What I expect to see in the general thread is announces to new releases, new ideas, maybe some let's play and general advice. Bugs are usually discussed in the same thread where the discussed release is published, and that makes sense since probably the bug that is pestering you is caused by the last release. It's a good way to curate bug reports, imo, as long as someone remembers to post it later in github.

The problem with the qqqa thread is that, being sticked, it's hard to spot new posts unless you are following the thread and received the alert. Or you have a reason to open it. (I see you have already changed this)
How to install and FAQ, are clearly threads that you don't need to be aware of new comments, but they must be readily available.

The only suggestion I have about the subfolder organisation is to unify them in general purposes.
For example, wanting to learn how to play. Let's say I'm a newby that's is out of the league, where should I look for improving my playstyle?
Currently you have three locations: The sticked tutorial, the Strategy subfolder and the Playthroughs.
I would have all of them in the same place. Call it Learning how to play, how to play, or something alike.

Then, another purpose would be to tweak Vox Populi, which is currently under the two balancing subfolders. This is not just balancing the mod, sometimes new features are being made, or some mechanics are modified to make them better for the user experience. I would put everything related to this under the same folder. Call it Suggestions. Or Balance and Mod Suggestions.

Submods Repository is perfect on its own. It does its job.

Then I would follow the above suggestion to group all the release announcements into the same folder. Call them releases.

So, this is how it would look:

Where to post and forum rules (sticked thread)
1 Release Announcements.

How to install (sticked)
Bug Reports (sticked)
Github Repository (sticked)
Bug discussions and hotfixes in the relevant thread.​

2 Learning Vox Populi

Tutorial (sticked)
FAQ (sticked)
Playthroughs folder
Strategies folder​

3 Suggestions

Leader Balance
General Balance​

4 Mods Repository

Compatible Mods (sticked)​

Main threads

Give the option to move posts in the main page to the relevant folder, if they are not generic enough.

Some interesting ideas here, thank you. I'm favoring a structure like this, with fewer subfolders to navigate:

Main Forum
Where to post and forum rules (stickied)
How to install / installation FAQ (stickied)
How to report bugs (stickied) - also a more thorough guide
Github Repository link (stickied)
Changelogs / Version history (stickied)
New version threads, QQQA, miscellaneous things can go here
Bug reports can be posted in the relevant version thread

1 Tutorials / Strategy
FAQ (stickied)
Beginner's Tutorial (stickied)
Strategy and help threads can go here

2 Suggestions / Feedback
Reminder to post bug reports to Github (stickied)
Leader Balance
General Balance
Non-balance feedback threads can go here.

3 Mods Repository
Compatible mods thread (stickied)
As-is

4 Playthroughs
As-is

Would love to hear others' thoughts on this.

Just to clarify:

If you're discussing discord, there are already two: a vox populi discord (which is pretty dead) and the VP modders Discord. If people want a discord, please direct them to the general VP discord.

The current channel that everyone is currently using was made for modders to talk about their modmods to critique, coordinate, and collaborate. It's not for the general VP players or for bug reports.

IIRC the "general discord" is pretty dead and there's some ownership issue with it.

I don't think the server you're talking about was created explicitly for modders; there's a lot of players there. That being said, most discussions there are from modders and there are a lot of separate channels for modders.

I think we could keep the modders discord as separate and create a new official one for general communication. I spoke to @Gazebo and @ilteroi about this a while back and they indicated they were open to the idea.

An announcement could be posted in the modders discord directing people to the main discord.

 

[pineappledan]

I don't think the server you're talking about was created explicitly for modders; there's a lot of players there. That being said, most discussions there are from modders and there are a lot of separate channels for modders.

Here is the link to the modmoders discord, stickied at the top of the mod repository subforum
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/vox-populi-mod-central-discord.640955/

Enginseer is explicit in the OP that it is a discord for modders.

 

[Recursive]

Here is the link to the modmoders discord, stickied at the top of the mod repository subforum
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/vox-populi-mod-central-discord.640955/

Enginseer is explicit in the OP that it is a discord for modders.

I stand corrected on that point then. The remainder of my message still stands.

If a new discord is made, could also sticky that...

 

[Recursive]

An alternative suggestion for my proposal above could be to remove one or both of the balance subforums and simply merge them into the "Suggestions / Feedback" subforum. It depends on how useful people consider the separation to be. Leader Balance is more "separate" than General Balance is, IMO.

 

[CyberPhy]

I don't know if a Discord server is a good idea, to me it seems redundant since we have the forums, and I would think it will fragment information between both places.

 

[Recursive]

I don't know if a Discord server is a good idea, to me it seems redundant since we have the forums, and I would think it will fragment information between both places.

I agree that any such server should be a supplement to the forums, not a replacement. But I don't think this is a major concern if better help information is added to the stickied threads.

I suspect such a server would mostly be used for casual discussions.

Additionally, it's often faster to share information informally. Perhaps this would mean we'd hear from a wider base of players.

 

[tu_79]

I would love to have all release announcements in the same folder, because, you know, it's almost impossible to find them when you want to know what changed and when. That's what azum4roll complained about not having the full changelog easily available.

Other than that, it seems good.

 

[InkAxis]

Some interesting ideas here, thank you. I'm favoring a structure like this, with fewer subfolders to navigate:

Main Forum
Where to post and forum rules (stickied)
How to install / installation FAQ (stickied)
How to report bugs (stickied) - also a more thorough guide
Github Repository link (stickied)
Changelogs / Version history (stickied)
New version threads, QQQA, miscellaneous things can go here
Bug reports can be posted in the relevant version thread

1 Tutorials / Strategy
FAQ (stickied)
Beginner's Tutorial (stickied)
Strategy and help threads can go here

2 Suggestions / Feedback
Reminder to post bug reports to Github (stickied)
Leader Balance
General Balance
Non-balance feedback threads can go here.

3 Mods Repository
Compatible mods thread (stickied)
As-is

4 Playthroughs
As-is

Would love to hear others' thoughts on this.



IIRC the "general discord" is pretty dead and there's some ownership issue with it.

I don't think the server you're talking about was created explicitly for modders; there's a lot of players there. That being said, most discussions there are from modders and there are a lot of separate channels for modders.

I think we could keep the modders discord as separate and create a new official one for general communication. I spoke to @Gazebo and @ilteroi about this a while back and they indicated they were open to the idea.

An announcement could be posted in the modders discord directing people to the main discord.

So basically merging General Balance/Leader Balance and also making it the place for other suggestions?
I don't really think there's an issue with how the forums are currently structured but this also doesn't sound like a bad idea.

The main improvement I think would be really useful is a better discord. The modding one is ... ok.
Having an official one would be very useful. Especially for communication between the "big 3" VP devs, I'm not sure if/how you currently communicate but it does seem there is often miscommunication, nearly ever version one of them says "a new version soon" but it actually only happens about a month later - it's not a big issue but better communication would help.

 

[Stalker0]

Some interesting ideas here, thank you. I'm favoring a structure like this, with fewer subfolders to navigate:

Main Forum
Where to post and forum rules (stickied)
How to install / installation FAQ (stickied)
How to report bugs (stickied) - also a more thorough guide
Github Repository link (stickied)
Changelogs / Version history (stickied)
New version threads, QQQA, miscellaneous things can go here
Bug reports can be posted in the relevant version thread

1 Tutorials / Strategy
FAQ (stickied)
Beginner's Tutorial (stickied)
Strategy and help threads can go here

2 Suggestions / Feedback
Reminder to post bug reports to Github (stickied)
Leader Balance
General Balance
Non-balance feedback threads can go here.

3 Mods Repository
Compatible mods thread (stickied)
As-is

4 Playthroughs
As-is

Would love to hear others' thoughts on this.



IIRC the "general discord" is pretty dead and there's some ownership issue with it.

I don't think the server you're talking about was created explicitly for modders; there's a lot of players there. That being said, most discussions there are from modders and there are a lot of separate channels for modders.

I think we could keep the modders discord as separate and create a new official one for general communication. I spoke to @Gazebo and @ilteroi about this a while back and they indicated they were open to the idea.

An announcement could be posted in the modders discord directing people to the main discord.

does the feedback forum replace general balance, or are you putting it as a sub forum under feedback?

I’m fine with the first and hate the second, we don’t need any forums that deep in structure.

I think leader balance has served its purpose. There was a time when we were discussing like 5-10 leaders at once, and so it made to give it its own house. Now combining those threads with the rest of balance I think is fine

 

[dostillevi]

nearly ever version one of them says "a new version soon" but it actually only happens about a month later

A month is practically "launching tomorrow" in game dev time lol.

 

[dostillevi]

Some interesting ideas here, thank you. I'm favoring a structure like this, with fewer subfolders to navigate:

I like this structure.