VQ Series Discussion thread

dot said:
BTW, :dance: if you're wondering what all the :woohoo:ing and :dance:ing is about: The World Cup!!! Germany vs. Argentina - 5:3
But only on penalties... And one may as well be shooting the dice... :mischief:

Congrats on the job, I know how it feels... I start a new one come Aug 1st...
 
namliaM said:
But only on penalties... And one may as well be shooting the dice... :mischief:
Dear namliaM, did you know that if two teams aren't able to win by penalties the officials actually are tossing a coin? :p --- Wait a sec! What was it back in '74? Wasn't that a penalty, too? :satan: ;)

Congrats on the job, I know how it feels... I start a new one come Aug 1st...
Thanks a lot. Yeah, my "introduction" will start next tuesday ... But I start working there --- 100% --- on Aug 1st ;). All the best for you!

eektor said:
It looks like I missed a great game too.
You did! But I've lost some sweat while watching. And I bet I'll lose even more in a few hours. I really wonder whether we can win against Italy, or not :scared:! We've never won against them in a World Cup game ... :crazyeye:. But I think today it's time to break with some old traditions ;).

BTW gentlemen ... I'm back.
 
Ya lost me there... Obsidian Order?

I'm not trekky enough to know where you're going with that.
 
GreyFox said:
OKay, you are trekkie enough to associate Obsidian Order with Trkekkie ... :lol:

I mean Snakes. Is that going to happen ?
First off, I wouldn't have associated Obsidian with Trekkies. ... After pondering it for quite some time I might have recalled that the old grey fox seems to be pretty trekky ... and that ... ah, whatever ... :crazyeye:

I ain't in for Snakes if you're going to start soon. I've got all this packing and moving coming up so I won't be able to take care of more SG duties. But I'll be in for VQ8 or VQ9 again - if you still want me by then :mischief:. I've already got an idea for variants. But I'll be trying them out before actually posting them. It'll have to do with a diplomatic victory though. :)

Have a good day the lot of you ;).

.
 
I'll roll up some starts and get a thread posted.

I have the following folks interested:
GreyFox
CosmicHail
Armstrong
Eektor

Anyone else - figure 6 spots has been optimal with this group, so one slot left.
 
Sounds good Bobrath......Snakes it is......

Obsidian order mmmm you a trekkie too NamliaM. More geeks at the helm... LOL
 
It seems both team A and B are aiming for the same strategy but Team A lost DP with KK. Having two DP's can be tricky since they both will have a negative for having a DP with a rival. I noticed that when KK cancelled he was back to pleased which is probably why he cancelled. We are keeping Cyrus at "Friendly" to hopefully get the PA. It's still not sure since power plays a role too. PA's are iffy at best and I think by halting ones progression for it can be detrimental. If team b doesn't get PA then we will be forced to fight our way to domination. I would be interested in what Team A will do but still have a chance for a PA with Cyrus if he is friendly. (I notice in all my SP games that plays a big factor in PA's is the friendly.)

Getting the PA still means getting the necessary votes at UN or going for domination. So it's part of the way there but still a long way to go.
 
KK still alive in Team A's game? :lol: Then I bet they have yet to be involved in a war ... hmm ... perhaps its time for me to start reading team A's game.

Well, getting PA at higher difficulty would make it so much easier, you essentially gain yourself an Emperor's research speed. But, yes, it is getting into a PA that is difficult and risky. If the PA is not forthcoming, then lots of resources and time are wasted for nothing ... and it might be a un-recoverable blow.

--
 
Cosmichail said:
It seems both team A and B are aiming for the same strategy but Team A lost DP with KK. Having two DP's can be tricky since they both will have a negative for having a DP with a rival.

Not always. Currently, we do not get a negative penalty with either Kublai or Cyrus for our respective DPs. The AI doesn't mind it when they're also close. That could change, of course.

I have looked at the 1820 save, and I have determined if Team A loses, why we have lost. This is a good lesson for both teams, as it illustrates the perils of not keeping a close eye on diplomacy, and nice enough, the entire team is to blame, so there is no finger-pointing.

And as so many things in life, it all comes down to a bottle of wine.

There are two components in Civ4, Strategy and Luck. Team A has already had some bad luck. I know this, because I played the save forward at one point to determine whether we'd be successful with the PA. And we were. In 1802. In the current game, however, it's 1820 and Kublai doesn't have Communism yet! Thus it was poor luck on our part that Kublai chose a different research path, otherwise we'd already be in a PA with him.

However, that's not the main problem. The main problem is illustrated with our diplomatic relations as of 1820:
+5 Favorite Civics
+6 Religion
+2 Open Borders
+2 Defensive Pact
+1 Peaceful Relations
-1 Border Tension

Once Kublai goes Free Religion, we lose the +6 and drop from +15 to +9 and cancels the DP. Now you might say that was bad luck again, but I say no--it was poor planning. Look at the list. What is missing?

Exactly. Where's our 'Trades have been fair and forthright' bonus? All we need is +1 and the DP isn't cancelled. But it's not there.

We're a small civ, with few cities and even fewer resources. The one extra resource we do have is Wine, which we've been trading to JC for a long time now. But Kublai could use it. And we could've been trading it to Kublai instead (this is what I mean by the whole team is to blame; any of us--including myself--could've made the trade switch).

Do you know the old poem that starts For want of a nail, the shoe was lost...? Sadly appropriate in this situation. All we had to do was give Kublai some wine ...
 
Good analysis. That's what happens when you (meaning all of us, of course) get complacent about the situation.
 
We were all distracted by JCs larger treasury... KK never had the per turn gold that would have allowed us to mentally trade with him. I do agree that if you're going for a PA the first thing you have to do is step back and figure out what you haven't done yet to get them happy with you.
 
bobrath said:
We were all distracted by JCs larger treasury... KK never had the per turn gold that would have allowed us to mentally trade with him. I do agree that if you're going for a PA the first thing you have to do is step back and figure out what you haven't done yet to get them happy with you.

That's exactly it. We were so concerned about getting more money from the wines from JC we never thought to trade it for less money. We didn't think outside the box :blush:

I think the problem with PAs is that teams tend to get passive in their pursuit. They get the DP or the Mutual Struggle, and just patiently wait. But it's like courting someone, you don't get engaged and then stop buying them flowers and dinner.

That happens *after* the marriage ;)
 
bobrath said:
We were all distracted by JCs larger treasury... KK never had the per turn gold that would have allowed us to mentally trade with him. I do agree that if you're going for a PA the first thing you have to do is step back and figure out what you haven't done yet to get them happy with you.
:confused: Sorry bob, but KK's treasury has been larger!
But I do agree, that stepping back and thinking it over is a must. :yup:
 
dot said:
:confused: Sorry bob, but KK's treasury has been larger!
But I do agree, that stepping back and thinking it over is a must. :yup:

I checked back to my earlier saves, and I think that was only during your one turn. Every time on my turns KK had a small treasury.
 
Due to the current discussion I'll post some of the variant rules that I've been thinking of.
The first time I mentioned them was post #206 in this thread.

I am thinking about the following setting:

Spoiler :
The Civilization
  • Frederick the Great, Germany
The World
  • Difficulty: Prince.
  • Map style: Fractal.
  • World size: Large.
  • Climate: Temperate.
  • Sea level: High.
  • Starting Era: Ancient.
  • Speed: Epic.
Checked variants
  • City flipping after conquest
  • Raging Barbarians
  • Require complete kills
Total number of civilizations in the game
  • eighteen
Enabled Victories
Spoiler :
Diplomatic :groucho:

I am currently trying on this a bit ... to see whether it's possible at all :mischief:. I don't want to start this before the end of august. I've got too much stuff coming up in the next eight weeks. But I'd really like to see how this would work out - especially with two teams ;).

Any comments?

Regards, dot
 
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