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VQ02 - Predetermined City Placement

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by Maquis, Feb 13, 2006.

  1. Maquis

    Maquis Chieftain

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    Location:
    Rochester, MN
    Ok, the first VQ (Very Quick) game is wrapping up, with a domination win well in hand. All the participants are up for another SG.

    We're going with a variant, that has predetermined city placement. There will be no dot maps, no expanding out toward a rival to seal them off. Our cities must be founded in tiers, and in the following order:

    City 1: Settler does not move. City founded in-place in 4000BC.

    Tier 1 expansion: (city 2-5) City founded 5 tiles in one direction from the capitol, one due North, one South, one East, one West. The players have a choice of which order these cities are founded.

    At this point, the empire will look like this, with Red dot being the capital:



    Tier 2 expansion (city 6-9): City founded 5 tiles to the North or south of the east and west cities, this basically fills in a 9 city square of land, 3 cities wide X 3 cities deep.

    Tier 3 expasion (cities 10+): Continue to fill in this same pattern, expaning out to a 3rd ring of cities.

    Clairifiactions to this:

    1) If there is a coastal tile within 3 squares of a current city, expansion stops in that direction. (If the coast is 4 squares, the city can be founded as normal.)

    2) If the tile is unbuildable (lake or peak) the city can be moved to the closest available tile.

    3) If the city site falls within an AI border, the offending AI border must be removed. Until it is removed, only the cities in the current Tier may be founded. The next tier of cities cannot be started.


    Game specific settings:

    Prince Level
    Large Lakes map
    Default AI number and settings
    All victory conditions enabled

    Human Civ: Rome (Expansive and Organized) fits the theme nicely.


    Roster (carried over from VQ01)

    player 1: Maquis ----
    player 2: oldbustedjorn ----
    player 3: eektor ----
    player 4: GreyFox ----
    player 5: bobrath ----


    I'll roll a couple of options for a start, and post some screens here.
     
  2. oldbustedjorn

    oldbustedjorn Chieftain

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    Sweet looking variant I think.

    A suggestion -> lets allow for a couple of alternates in case *gasp* one of us can't play...
     
  3. bobrath

    bobrath Chieftain

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    Yeah I'm in for this as well. Course next game... we should try snake based building.
     
  4. eektor

    eektor Chieftain

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    I'm in, was great playing with you guys for the first game.
     
  5. GreyFox

    GreyFox Make it so ...

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    The Quick Grey Fox reporting ...
    *looks around*
    *no lazy dog to jump over with*
    *...* :mischief:

    anyway,

    So it must be a CxxxxC grid (is that 4 tiles aprt or 5 tiles apart? :crazyeye:), right?

    So the first tier cities must be all built before a city can be built in the second teir, so on and so forth, right?

    So do we stop at the 3rd ring, or must we keep building cities ring by ring, and assimilating those offending AI's cities in the process, until we win? If we must keep spawning cities, a Pangea/lakes map might be more suitable.

    EDIT:
    @bobrath: what is a snake based building?
     
  6. eektor

    eektor Chieftain

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    I think we should do this on a pangea or lakes map. There is a good possibility that if we were on a continent we might not have a port city if we follow the perfect city placement.

    My goal for this game is to give GreyFox at least one turnset of action. :D
     
  7. Maquis

    Maquis Chieftain

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    GF: Just to clairify, it there are 4 tiles between two cites... the fat crosses just touch. I just can't count correctly. (I've edited my original post to reflect this)

    We continue to expand as far as we would like. If we want to go for domination, we have to continue our tiered expasion until this is achieved. We can also choose to stop or pause at some point, we don't constantly have to expand.

    I thought of adding this stipulation, that we would always be building a settler somewhere, and use him immediatly... but I thought it would be a little too hard, as we would drain our economy out in the middle ages...

    One other point I should stress, we can war as much as we like... but we CANNOT keep a captured city unless it fits perfectly into the *current* tier. Any other city must be razed.

    Also, I think a lakes map may be a good idea. It'll give us a better chance of getting some continuous land to expand upon.
     
  8. bobrath

    bobrath Chieftain

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    Snake build: each city must be adjacent to the previously built city.


    You can add an exception that if you reach a "dead end" - only water edges, then you can restart the snake from any site adajcent to the same body of water.
     
  9. GreyFox

    GreyFox Make it so ...

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    :lol: somehow, I think that will stick -- the Fox that never gets a wartime turn in SG games ... :crazyeye: seriously, I had really yet to have a war in all the SG I have played so far, even the Free For All I joined briefly was after the war .... :mischief: I did declare war on the anarchy game, but that is not a SG, right? ... :hmm:, maybe I should go join an always-war-variant SG .... ;)

    @maquis: got it, understood the variant completely now. When do we get started on this? After I pressed "enter" and inevitably tirgger the victory in my next very first turn in VQ01 :)?


    EDIT: didn't realize different smilies exactly once in this single post :D

    -
     
  10. oldbustedjorn

    oldbustedjorn Chieftain

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    Lakes or highlands, although highlands we would prolly run into alot of unbuildable spots - speaking of which, if we run into say, a mountain peak, do we have to build on a tile adjacent to the peak? Also, we could specify that it has to be built in the direction of expansion - as to leave space between fat crosses, or inward - as to cause overlap. Or we could just make it that we have to stop in that direction until all other perfect city placements are gone. Lots o' options...
     
  11. oldbustedjorn

    oldbustedjorn Chieftain

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    Actually, wouldn't great plains give us the most land to deal with?
     
  12. GreyFox

    GreyFox Make it so ...

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    I say if a peak or lake happen to be in the city site, a city will not be built there. It should be treated as though the city is there and continue on. Because, if we are allowed to shift the city to alternate tiles, it will mess up subsequent city placesments and cause confusion.
     
  13. Maquis

    Maquis Chieftain

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    I guess my thought was, if we hit a lake or peak, we must build adjacent to that landmark, and attempt to avoid fat-cross-overlap if at all possible. I know this could be a nightmare with subsequetial cities, especially if we run into larger mountian ranges.

    Once we start this game, we'll see that there will be plenty time to talk about where the cities will go; we won't be covering that large an area very fast. We'll have the area for the first 9 cities (Tier 2 expansion) mapped out very quickly. This is only an area totalling 15 x 15 tiles.

    Do you realize that to fill out the entire Tier 3 we will have to build 16 more cities? (bringing the total to 25) :eek: This brings our empire to 20 x 20 tiles in size. :crazyeye:
     
  14. bobrath

    bobrath Chieftain

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    Less talky! more smashy smashy
     
  15. oldbustedjorn

    oldbustedjorn Chieftain

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    I'm sure that possibly before we get to tier three (depending on map size), there will be AI on several sides and we'll be razing and/or capturing...

    Question: If we can't build anymore because of AI/terrain blocking city sites, we have to declare and raze. If we declare on say, the Incans - how would we handle that? Do we try to raze all their cities? An AI civ will probably span several tiers, so that we would declaring on multiple sides before we'd ever HAVE to destroy a civ. It might be a good idea to declare, detroy a *few* cities to give us culture room, and then back up and defend until they allow peace.

    I'm really looking forward to this because it will test our MM'ing with suboptimal city locations - and our city specialization, as it won't be obvious (i.e we have 6 clams in our city radius, i suggest we whip/GPP/Nat Ep...)
     
  16. Maquis

    Maquis Chieftain

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    As far as warring to make room for our cities, there are no other stipulations other than "clearing" the way for our next city. We can declare peace right after we take the offending AI city, or we can mow down their whole civ. We can pick and choose depending on our situation. We can even declare war on a civ that is not impeding our progress. (We can go for conquest victory at any time)

    I am starting this game now... everyone seems eager so I want to kick it off before I take the time for my turnset in VG01.

    Let's do a starting round of 20-15-15 for this one. I'll start with the first 20 turns, then everyone takes 15. When it comes back to me, we'll settle into the 10-turn norm.
     
  17. oldbustedjorn

    oldbustedjorn Chieftain

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    Sounds good, but lets not neglect VG01 - or it will only get harder. I do want to see how fast we can finish off a few civs in our other game.

    :hammer: - just because I like the smiley way too much
     
  18. Maquis

    Maquis Chieftain

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    Ok... this is going to be one interesting game, that is for sure!

    Again, here are the settings:
    Prince level
    Large Great Plains map
    We are Julius Ceasar, with 9 AI civs

    Here's our start:



    I settle in place. We have wheat just to our south, and there wil be cows in the fat cross. We have fresh water from the lake.

    I won't post a full turnlog, since there is not much going on.

    Rome starts on a Warrior - Research set to Bronze Working.

    3820 - Our warrior pops a hut for Mysticism!

    3680 - Rome builds warrior. I put one turn into Barracks, as Rome will grow in 1 turn. I then change to worker; due in 10 turns.

    3400 - We meet our first AI - Frederick. Looks like his scout came from the east.

    3280 - Bronze Working in. Research Agriculture next.

    3200 - Worker built in Rome.

    Here's what Rome looks like in 3200:



    So we have the wheat, cows in the FC. Note... the cow tile is the ONLY forest seen here.

    Now... I hope we like cows. LOTS of cows!!! This has to be one of the wierdest looking starts I have seen. Also, very few forests. Lots of hills to the east, that city should get some great production.

    Maybe this is normal for a greatplains map? I haven't played them much.




    I can count 15 cow resources, a few wheat, and a few wine. Also have Copper to the SW... but it looks like we can't grab it with a city until Tier 2 (Looks like it is too far to the west to get in FC of the south city.) The other way we can grab this would be to get enough culture expansion...

    This looks like quite the challenge. I hope some of the AI will trade for cows!!

    Roster:


    player 1: Maquis ---- Started
    player 2: oldbustedjorn ---- UP
    player 3: eektor ---- On deck
    player 4: GreyFox ----
    player 5: bobrath ----

    Remember, everyone plays 15 turnsthe first round.
     
  19. GreyFox

    GreyFox Make it so ...

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    Holy Cows !! .... :D
     
  20. oldbustedjorn

    oldbustedjorn Chieftain

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    I have NEVER seen a start like that before, but I'm not sure if I've ever done great plains.

    The good news: this is great for our variant

    The bad news: Uh, thats a lot of plains...

    I'm not sure I have a set strategy for a map like this. Some initial thoughts:

    - Lots of flatlands, good for attacking - not defending...
    - We may actually have to use workshops in this game
    - Um, lets beeline for the hills... there is an insane city sight down there that no one should have for us - OH WAIT, we can't :argh: We might get that stuff second tier though....

    This is my got it, but I'm not sure if I can play tonight. Being that its early, I should be able to fit them in...
     

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