1. We have added the ability to collapse/expand forum categories and widgets on forum home.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Photobucket has changed its policy concerning hotlinking images and now requires an account with a $399.00 annual fee to allow hotlink. More information is available at: this link.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. All Civ avatars are brought back and available for selection in the Avatar Gallery! There are 945 avatars total.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. To make the site more secure, we have installed SSL certificates and enabled HTTPS for both the main site and forums.
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Civ6 is released! Order now! (Amazon US | Amazon UK | Amazon CA | Amazon DE | Amazon FR)
    Dismiss Notice
  6. Dismiss Notice
  7. Forum account upgrades are available for ad-free browsing.
    Dismiss Notice

VQ08 - Washington/Emporer - Mission Control

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by Cosmichail, Jul 14, 2006.

  1. Cosmichail

    Cosmichail Dark Lord of The Sith

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2006
    Messages:
    2,419
    Location:
    Korriban
    Civilization: American, Leader: George Washington, Organized, financial

    Map: Fractal
    Water level: Medium
    Starting period: Ancient
    Speed: Epic
    Barbs: Raging
    Victory conditions: all enabled, NO PA and a special flavor of variants:

    1. Although all Victory conditions are enabled we can only win by Space Ship victory.

    2. We are capitalist and seek to gain wealth in all our trades so must always gain some coin with our trades.

    3. Being the incredible scientists we are, we will need to accomplish a 300 beakers for one city by 1500ad.

    4. Culture schmulture, we are scientists and spend our time in the labs blowing up stuff. So all scientific buildings have priorty.


    Here are the starting screens:









    Here is the roster:

    Cosmichail
    NamliaM (checked in)
    Greyfox (checked in)
    Eektor (checked in)
    Armstrong (checked in)
    Scowler (checked in)

    I would say being on Epic start with 20 turns on first set.
     
  2. armstrong

    armstrong Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2006
    Messages:
    550
    Location:
    sweet home Chicago
    Checking in! :D

    We know there is at least one food resource at one of the following locations from the settler: 2W, W-SW, 2E, E-NE, N-NE.

    It looks like the forest might continue to the E-NE, so probably no food there. I have a feeling there is another elephant W-SW (they like to travel in big herds.)

    I think either a) settle in place, or b) settling 2n on the plains hill, but if we want to settle 2n we need to know that there will be a food resource there, so sending the warrior NE to make sure there's something there first would be a good idea. If not, probably best to settle in place.

    It's a damn shame those elephants aren't on the river... they'd be worth 2 extra commerce, and we'll need the Wheel to get the happiness. As they stand now, they're just the same as a mined river hill, which we already have a couple of.

    As for tech, it really depends on our food source(s). We might need to go Animal Husbandry off the bat. If it's a corn/wheat, though, we're set. On the other hand, we could just go Hunting -> Archery to play it safe (and hook up the elephants.)

    Of course, we also need Mining->Bronze->Wheel soon to find the copper - do you think we have time to delay? We'll have a couple of river mines we could work (4FP1C, not bad tiles), so we'll want Mining soon anyway.

    I guess I see a few tech paths:

    1a. We need AH & we have no horses: AH -> Hunting -> Archery -> Mining -> BW -> Wheel -> Pottery

    1b. We need AH & we have horses: AH -> Wheel -> Mining -> BW -> Pottery -> Hunting

    2. We don't need AH #1: Hunting -> Mining -> Archery -> BW -> Wheel -> Pottery (early archers)

    3. We don't need AH #2: Mining -> BW -> (Hunting+Archery if no bronze) -> Wheel -> Hunting (if didn't get earlier) -> Pottery

    With Pottery coming soon after so we can take advantage of the Financial trait & granaries for whipping.

    I like Worker -> 2+ Warriors until size 2 -> Worker -> Settler as our starting build, chopping the worker + settler if we can get early BW. We have enough forests to cut down.

    It looks like there are 3 Floodplains to the NW, so that would probably make a good second city site, and it will be automatically connected - not a bad idea to scout there first.
     
  3. namliaM

    namliaM Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Messages:
    3,792
    Location:
    Amsterdam/Netherlands
    I would think BW => Beeline-ish Phants...
    Agree we need pottery sooner rather that later
    Our starting techs are USELESS!!! but there must be some food under the fog, I havent seen a foodless start yet... Lets hope its a farm source rather than a pasture source so we can skip AH for now...

    Edit: We do want hunting pretty soon to take advantage of our Ivory lux
     
  4. eektor

    eektor Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    462
    I would move the warrior north east to check that area up there. If it's pretty good then move the settler 2 north and settle on the plain hill.

    I would go mining -> bw but if there is a resource in our BFC I would research the worker tech to hook it up.

    Edit: If the Ivory is the only resource ( I sure hope not) I would go Hunting(set up the camp on the Ivory)->mining->BW->AH
     
  5. namliaM

    namliaM Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Messages:
    3,792
    Location:
    Amsterdam/Netherlands
    Warrior NE is a sure thing in my book....

    I was thinking of settling 1n on the grass or 1s or 1se and conserve the trees for chopping.
    Moving south losses the Ivory (for now) but it isnt that strong a tile anyway and it depends on the findings of warrior NE if there is food there then moving south is out of the question...
    If there is food on that 1 fogged up tile (and even better it be farmable) then moving 1 north would make even more sence due to the auto irrigation of that food tile...

    It is allmost a waste, having fishing and Agriculture and niether doing much for us at the moment :(
     
  6. Cosmichail

    Cosmichail Dark Lord of The Sith

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2006
    Messages:
    2,419
    Location:
    Korriban
    I agree that our starting techs aren't helping much. Going NE with the warrior sounds good to see what else we got. I like the 1n on grass tile to keep the forest for chopping, plus we get two plains hills for production, although we would have only one in our BFC going 1s too. (of what we can see) Going 2n if there's something there worth having.

    Tech path I like Hunting (if there's a resource get that tech but who knows if it corn or wheat we have it already)-->mining-->BW

    We will need wheel/pottery too to hook up those elephants and get some cottages. We are on "raging barbs" so we might want to think about archery too or trading for it. (so alphabet at some point but far away)

    As to build order I see I like Armstrong's suggestion:

    I like Worker -> 2+ Warriors until size 2 -> Worker -> Settler as our starting build. But after warriors I would like to get settler. Plus chopping for them is good but we have to get to BW asap then. Ok I just realize it means building worker at size 1 which I never do but am not closed to that option. Does it have an effect or is the growth so slow in beginning it doesn't matter.

    The more reason to think about archery because travelling settlers with warriors can loose.

    I will wait for the other players input before I start as playing on Emporer takes a lot of careful planning and every idea put forth helps in making the right decisions. Our starting position isn't the best but we will have good commerce tiles once cottages are built and if we go 1n which I like the most get two production hill for a nice combo. All we need is a nice food source.

    We only have to hear from Greyfox and Scowler and then let the games begin......
     
  7. Scowler

    Scowler Mr. Understatement

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2004
    Messages:
    749
    Location:
    UK
    I'm not so keen on starting with a worker with raging barbs. The worker can outrun the barbs, but anything he builds will be in danger of being pillaged. 2 warriors is the minimum requirement for garrison duty - and also for chaparoning a settler - so maybe better to start warriors right away, while researching hunting -> archery?

    Just my 2 :commerce:, but I'm happy to be re-educated :)
     
  8. Cosmichail

    Cosmichail Dark Lord of The Sith

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2006
    Messages:
    2,419
    Location:
    Korriban
    Scowler you make a good point and I think having archers to escort our settlers would be much better as I have lost to barb warriors/panthers/bears with warrior escorted settler. I generally don't start workers at 1 pop but hey am always open to suggestions. Hunting/archery might be prudent just to protect ourselves and have the ability to get our settlers out. In a monarch SP game I was so overrun with barbs (not even raging barbs but had a lot of gold) I couldn't get any settlers out until I got archery. Normally I would prefer to trade for it but feel it might be necessary.
     
  9. namliaM

    namliaM Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Messages:
    3,792
    Location:
    Amsterdam/Netherlands
    We allready have Agriculture... No need if there is wheat or corn ;)

    Only Hunting and Wheel are needed really... Hunting you allready meantioned earlier....

    Ouch RAGING barbs, I forgot about that one... Definatly do Warrior to size 2 then start a Worker....
     
  10. Cosmichail

    Cosmichail Dark Lord of The Sith

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2006
    Messages:
    2,419
    Location:
    Korriban
    You funny,
    that's what I meant.

    I am getting old so tend to repeat myself.

    EDIT: I made a spelling error in the title should be Emperor not Emporer DOH......

    Blame my cold in the middle of summer
     
  11. eektor

    eektor Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    462
    Animals can't go inside cultural boundaries and if we do worker first, we should be able to build more warriors before the barb warriors appear.

    Although if the city only has ivory and no other resources I would be tempted to go warrior before worker.
     
  12. Cosmichail

    Cosmichail Dark Lord of The Sith

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2006
    Messages:
    2,419
    Location:
    Korriban
    Eektor,

    Does it not affect growth starting with a worker. I am not worried about animals inside our borders but when we get a settler out to settle warriors sometimes on the higher levels don't defend too well even against bears/panthers but of course travelling via forest/hills is the safest method.
    Just recently on a monarch game I lost a settler/warrior to a lion on a hill which totally dumbfounded me. I agree if there aren't any more resources I am inclined to start with warrior.

    Greyfox is OOP but he probably will log in soon as he has been doing. I think though I have enough ideas to get started and might do so later tonight.
     
  13. eektor

    eektor Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    462
    Actually starting out with a worker leads to faster growth most of the time. I know in several of the GOTM's pre game discussions its come across that starting with a worker is faster. Other ways was sometimes getting a work boat is faster and building warriors to steal another civs worker. That won't work very well in emporer since the other civs get a free archer which can kill your warrior easily.

    As for animals or barbs, if I have a settler going out, I tend to go around them instead of taking my chances. Also, I tend not to keep my settler and warrior together. I have the warrior scout things out, so if I do lose the warrior, my settler can run away. If we try to keep our cities close together we don't have too worry too much of barbs when founding the second city.
     
  14. GreyFox

    GreyFox Make it so ...

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2005
    Messages:
    5,553
    Location:
    Where No One Has Gone Before
    Raging Barb won't post a problem until 2800BC, so worker first is ok. However, we need archers sooner rather than later. Archers are simple more cost effective than other units against barbs.

    Not enough info on whether to settle in place or not. My guess is as good as anyone's guess.

    -
     
  15. armstrong

    armstrong Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2006
    Messages:
    550
    Location:
    sweet home Chicago
    Yep :) Except, there's one case that might come up where early Archery would be bad I think - if we have Pigs (or sheep) and research AH first, and also have Horses, Chariots will displace Archers - I really wish I could see what happens when that warrior moves onto a hill :)
     
  16. Cosmichail

    Cosmichail Dark Lord of The Sith

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2006
    Messages:
    2,419
    Location:
    Korriban
    VQ08 – Mission Control

    Turn 0

    Move warrior NE and find nothing. Move settler 1N and we find corn nw and settle there, start with worker. After settling see piggies in the distance so settling 1 more north would have been good. I do like the idea of having two production hills. We also see a hut in the distance send warrior in that direction. Worker done in 23 turns.



    Turn 1

    Research started with hunting in 9 turns. Move warrior towards hut.

    Turn 2

    Move warrior.

    Turn 3

    Move warrior.

    Turn 4

    Hut gives us a scout move him to hill.



    Turn 5

    More scout and find ivory and coast.

    Turn 6

    Move warrior/scout

    Turn 7

    Oh nice scout pop a hut and gets us mining.



    Turn 8

    See a panther hope he leave’s our scout alone.

    Turn 9

    Our scout take out a panther (in open ground nonetheless) and put him on a hill to heal.
    Washington expands it’s borders.

    Turn 10

    We discover hunting and start bronze working. (I know we should get archery but if there’s copper nearby we should know where it is and since we got mining early we should have enough time to research BW and archery before barbs show up)



    Turn 11

    Move warrior, scout healing

    Turn 12

    Move warrior, scout healing

    Turn 13

    Warrior see another hut no other civs yet?

    Turn 14

    Warrior moves closer to hut (lion looming somewhere)

    Turn 15

    Huts provides us with a map. (whoopee).
    We are definitely in the northern hemisphere.

    Turn 16

    Warrior moves

    Turn 17

    Warrior finds some piggies

    Turn 18

    Warrior finds marble too nice.

    Turn 19

    Buddhism has been founded in a distant land. Warrior sees another hut.



    Turn 20

    Warrior moves towards hut and forest to protect from lion. Hut gives us another map. There’s an island off our coast too. Now two lions yuk. Scout is healed now. 3 turns left on worker. 13 turns left on BW.

    We will need to build some warriors after worker as proposed as our warrior might not make it against two lions.
     
  17. Cosmichail

    Cosmichail Dark Lord of The Sith

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2006
    Messages:
    2,419
    Location:
    Korriban
    Here is the roster: (20 turns)

    Cosmichail -->just played--> Didn't find any civs?
    NamliaM -->UP--> Will he find us some civs
    Greyfox -->on deck --> Will we have copper for him to use
    Eektor --> made a good point about worker.
    Armstrong --> proposed excellent starting strategy
    Scowler --> didn't like starting with worker hope it don't backfire

    Seeing the corn and Eektor's advice prompted me to try it since I never do it. I think when he's done having the corn farmed will allow us to grow very fast and we can mine the plains hill/and camp the ivory but won't help until we have roads. We were lucky in getting mining via a hut but I think we should build at least two warriors after that and think about archery. I know most SG's leave that out and if we have copper in our BFC then we won't need it. BW is due in 13 turns
     
  18. namliaM

    namliaM Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Messages:
    3,792
    Location:
    Amsterdam/Netherlands
    Hmz, you seem to have East and West Mixed up.... East is right, West is left
    NE would have moved the warrior to the Plains hill without forrest on it...
    I wonder what we are missing by moving 1N.... Hope we find out sometime...

    Geez... are we alone?

    Got it, playing now
     
  19. Cosmichail

    Cosmichail Dark Lord of The Sith

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2006
    Messages:
    2,419
    Location:
    Korriban
    Yep I do and blame that on my foggy head with this cold I have for over a week now. I thought settling 1n was what you suggested at one point and having two hills will help too. I didn't like settling on spot because of forest but like you say we will find out eventually. If we are alone it will give us plenty of room to expand and the next spot we might consider the marble/pigs and see if we can snag the GL in the future. (tricky but worth a try).
     
  20. namliaM

    namliaM Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Messages:
    3,792
    Location:
    Amsterdam/Netherlands
    On the Inherited turn our warrior defeats Lion #1, but the second is to much...
    Note the battle log....


    3310 Start farming the Corn
    3130 Scout survives attack of Wolf. Promotion now available, but dont promote him yet.
    3010 BW in Start the Wheel and Revolt. Our current world.... and our current resources...

    Note the lack of Copper :( and lux... No copper means no defence... Switch wheel to Archery

    2980 Scout stops in forrest, next to a wolf. Upgrade the scout to woodsman I
    Wolf defeated, a lion nearby...

    Ze Zave

    I thought I played 21 turns thinking I cannot count..., but now it turns out I cannot count... Cause I actually played 17... Anyway thats 3 more [enter] for the next person.

    We have another warrior and it looks like we are alone on an island (baring a landbridge due east). And a barren peace of rock it is too... there are maybe 3 or so reasonable city spots available...
    1 City south with Pigs, elephants and fish and one city on the River NorthWest grabbing NO resources... All others are mediocre at best...

    Our goal seems clear, Get a coastal city and get a fishing boat out and see if we can meet some people...

    P.S. Sorry I forget to crop the Screeny....
     

Share This Page