V's SubMod

[Vaeringjar]

v1.0.0 for RaR-WtP 2.8.2.*
.zip and .7z are the same, just half the download size for 7z users

# V's SubMod:

Notes:
- The dynamic version of the DLL as provided by Nightingale is required and included.
- Vanilla files included, so you can easily revert to vanilla.
- This submod is not save-game compatible with vanilla.


>>*Overhauled naval promotions and added 2 new ones. There should be much less movement bonus and vision range spam. Max extra sight from promotions is +1. Intended to play with base sight increased (included).
Some promotions were made unique to military/merchant/pirate ship types.
See the attached image (but note that it's not 100% accurate).
# @ CIV4PromotionInfos.xml ; XML_AUTO_UTF8_PromotionInfo.xml

(images aren't usually of the final/current mod version)

>> Overhauled Ships.
# @ CIV4ArtDefines_Unit.xml ; CIV4UnitClassInfos.xml ; CIV4UnitInfos.xml ; XML_AUTO_UTF8_UnitInfo.xml ; XML_AUTO_UTF8_UnitClassInfo.xml ; CIV4UnitArtStyleTypeInfos.xml ; CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml

(images aren't usually of the final/current mod version)

- Ship sizes should be realistically plausible relative to each other. (no more Ship-of-the-Line sized caravels)
- Nations now start with both a caravel and a carrack, or a variation of these.
- Ship costs have been derived from the components and hammers required to make them, roughly assuming typical European market prices. Components required have been roughly derived from ship stats.
- Note: ships can be expensive, VERY expensive.
- Note: ships with multiple models are balanced to represent that many ships.
- Note: pirate ships are abstractions and don't represent one specific ship type.


List of ships:
- First Rate Ship of the Line -# 220 Str, 3 Moves, 3 Cargo
- Second Rate Ship of the Line # 180 Str, 3 Moves, 3 Cargo
- Third Rate Ship of the Line -# 140 Str, 4 Moves, 2 Cargo
- Fourth Rate Ship of the Line # 80 Str, 5 Moves, 1 Cargo
- Fifth Rate Great Frigate # 60 Str, 6 Moves, Can escape # Unique unit to English and French Colonies
- Fifth Rate Heavy Frigate # 50 Str, 6 Moves, Can escape
- Fifth Rate Light Frigate # 37 Str, 7 Moves, Can escape
- Sixth Rate Corvette -----# 26 Str, 8 Moves, Can escape
- Brigantine # 21 Str, 10 Moves, 2 Cargo, Can escape
- Sloop -----# 15 Str, 9 Moves, 1 Cargo, Can escape
- Row-Galley # 12 Str, 3 Moves, 1 Cargo, Can escape, Can be transported, Coastal ship
- Gundallow -# 9 Str, 2 Moves, Can escape, Can be transported, Coastal ship

- Privateer -----# 36 Str, 5 Moves, 2 Cargo, Can escape
- Pirate Frigate # 44 Str, 7 Moves, 1 Cargo, Can escape
- Smuggling Ship # 8/16 Str, 7 Moves, 3/6 Cargo, Can escape

- War Galleon --# 60 Str, 4 Moves, 2 Cargo
- West Indiaman # 50 Str, 4 Moves, 6 Cargo
- Merchantman --# 25 Str, 5 Moves, 5 Cargo
- Fluyt --------# 15 Str, 7 Moves, 5 Cargo, Can escape, Can only Defend
- Galleon ------# 30 Str, 5 Moves, 4 Cargo
- Nau ----------# 30 Str, 4 Moves, 4 Cargo # Unique unit for Portugal, replaces Carrack
- Carrack ------# 20 Str, 4 Moves, 3 Cargo
- Fleet Caravel # 16 Str, 7 Moves, 2 Cargo, Can escape # Unique unit for Portugal and Spain
- Caravel ------# 6 Str, 6 Moves, 1 Cargo, Can escape, Can only Defend, Can be transported

- New ship model credits:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/eu-iv-european-sails.26568/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/gunboat.28150/
& https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/mighty-ships-et-al.655821/page-17#post-15996273
https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/new-ship-model-seventy-four-ship-of-the-line.23095/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/new-ship-model-ship-of-the-line.23065/


>> Doubled the number of unique historical pirate-ship captain names, swapped some (privateer<->p.frigate), and corrected a few with typos.
# @ CIV4UnitInfos.xml

>> Treasure can be carried by any ship with 4 slots (instead of requiring 6).
# @ CIV4UnitInfos.xml

>> Colonials now start with a combo of caravels and a carrack
# @ CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml

>>*Delayed pirate spawn (pirates have become more impactful as a secondary effect)
# @ GlobalDefinesAlt.xml # MIN_ROUND_PIRATES BASE_CHANCE_PIRATES TIMER_PIRATES

>>*Ships now have base vision range of 2 instead of 1 # https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/increasing-range-of-vision-on-ocean.664715/
# @ CIV4TerrainInfos.xml (TERRAIN_OCEAN)

* You can safely revert these to vanilla at any point. Find the mentioned files in the included backup folder.


>> Land tweaks:

- Mortar: Enabled defensive bonus (mortars can fire from behind cover) # @ CIV4UnitInfos.xml
- Seasoned scout: free "Explorer I" and "Explorer II" promotions # UNIT_SCOUT @ CIV4UnitInfos.xml
- Converted Native: Can enter peak # @ CIV4UnitInfos.xml

- Scout & Pioneer profession no longer allows moving into peak # @ CIV4ProfessionInfos.xml
# Note that "seasoned scout", "hardy pioneer", and "converted native" can do so regardless of profession.

- Dragoon:
# as mobile infantry and light cavalry as per pre-18th century uses (18th century would be pretty much what the cavalry unit already is)
-- enable defensive bonus to dragoon, str -1, moves +1 # @ CIV4ProfessionInfos.xml
-- removed hills combat maulus, increased withdrawal bonus, and increased attack vs artillery bonus # @ CIV4PromotionInfos.xml

- Misc:
-- Disabled land hunter promotion. Standard promotions are a much better long-term option, and the AI wasted their military units' promotions on it. # @ CIV4PromotionInfos.xml


>> Known issues:

- First Rate ship is currently disabled (still in world builder) as it crashes on move. The problem is in the .nif, which I don't know how to solve myself.
- Some of the new ship models lack animations. I don't know how to make these, though some can be ported from other mods/submods ("#todo").
- Some founding fathers need to be updated.

 

[ConjurerDragon]

As you want to make the game more fun and/or realistic:

When you write that the Nau replaces the Carrack does that mean that POR does not have Carracks at all,
while SPA/POR have the "Fleet Caravel" in addition to the Caravel?

Are your light ships able to use the shallow "Large Rivers"?

Frigates should have a fighting chance against Ships of the Line in certain conditions, e.g.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_of_13_January_1797
when bad weather or a strong gale prevent the SotL to open their lowest or several lower gunports.Which would make a malus to SoL in storm seem more fitting than the current bonus to the defensive ship regardless which it is.

Do the large ships of the line get a malus in coastal waters? (e.g. -1 speed) due to having to carefully maneuver for shoals and sandbanks?

 

[Vaeringjar]

When you write that the Nau replaces the Carrack does that mean that POR does not have Carracks at all,
while SPA/POR have the "Fleet Caravel" in addition to the Caravel?

Yes. Do keep in mind the Nau is pretty much a carrack, just the most iconic and important type. In-game it is stronger and carries +1 cargo, and the model is a bit fancier.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_of_13_January_1797

One of the frigates was a razee, meaning it carried much heavier armament than a typical frigate. A simplified firepower estimate of adding up pounders gives it a rating of ~1000 pounders, which would translate to 100STR as per my balancing, which makes it equivalent to a Fourth Rate SoL. The other frigate's armament isn't specified, but it's probably like a 50STR heavy frigate. The French SoL had 1820, though as noted a significant portion wasn't used.

But yeah, balancing is always WIP, I haven't changed offensive/defensive bonuses. AFAIK the current global defensive bonus is only at coasts?
I don't think there's any straightforward way of making a movement malus like that unfortunately.

Are your light ships able to use the shallow "Large Rivers"?

Not sure what you mean?

 

[Mr. ZorG]

in a future release there will be terrain areas called "Large rivers". Only vessels with shallow draft will be able to move on them. now it is a large and small coastal ships, a sloop and a fishing boat
ConjurerDragon asks which of your small ships will be able to navigate the Large Rivers.

 

[Fürstbischof]

One of the frigates was a razee, meaning it carried much heavier armament than a typical frigate. A simplified firepower estimate of adding up pounders gives it a rating of ~1000 pounders, which would translate to 100STR as per my balancing, which makes it equivalent to a Fourth Rate SoL. The other frigate's armament isn't specified, but it's probably like a 50STR heavy frigate. The French SoL had 1820, though as noted a significant portion wasn't used.

Three Decks is your friend: Amazon was 36-gun 18-pounder frigate.
https://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=3017

 

[Vaeringjar]

in a future release there will be terrain areas called "Large rivers". Only vessels with shallow draft will be able to move on them. now it is a large and small coastal ships, a sloop and a fishing boat
ConjurerDragon asks which of your small ships will be able to navigate the Large Rivers.

That sounds really cool. Well, gundallows, row-galleys, caravels and sloops at the very least. Haven't given it much thought, but probably sixth rates and the light frigate, plus the brigantine, ah, and the privateer + smugglers. Am thinking for practicality cargo ships should be allowed as well, to reduce logistical pain, with a debuff, but not all the way to the Indiaman.

Three Decks is your friend: Amazon was 36-gun 18-pounder frigate.
https://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=3017

So it adds up to a total of 814 pounders. Meaning the 2 fat frigates got as much firepower combined as that French 74. Obviously the firepower varies in range and use-case, but nevertheless the amount of steel they can make fly is pretty much the same, assuming equivalent reload times.

 

[Fürstbischof]

>> Doubled the number of unique historical pirate-ship captain names, swapped some (privateer<->p.frigate), and corrected a few with typos.
# @ CIV4UnitInfos.xml

I did some work along similar lines two years ago. IIRC the names of pirates were occasionally swapped with privateers.

>> Treasure can be carried by any ship with 4 slots (instead of requiring 6).
# @ CIV4UnitInfos.xml

This is long overdue.

>> Colonials now start with a combo of caravels and a carrack
# @ CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml

I like that. For testing I'd added a new type of caravel, which had no cargo slot and was solely usable for exploration. My carrack was the nau which had 1 cargo slot. So in total all Europeans had at start 2 caravels and 1 nau. Not surprising it was meant to resemble Columbus' Santa María, Niña and Pinta. My original plan was to have a second carrack (2 cargo slots) sent once your expedition had discovered the New World and made a first contact with the natives but then I was unable to figure out how to do that.

 

[Fürstbischof]

Seeing the sillyness occasionally produced by cultural borders at sea I'm tempted to advise setting "<bRivalTerritory>0</bRivalTerritory>" to 1 so that all naval units can enjoy the "Freedom of navigation". During the Age of Sail ships were dependent upon the prevailing winds and could not adhere to invisible lines drawn in the water.

 

[ConjurerDragon]

Seeing the sillyness occasionally produced by cultural borders at sea I'm tempted to advise setting "<bRivalTerritory>0</bRivalTerritory>" to 1 so that all naval units can enjoy the "Freedom of navigation". During the Age of Sail ships were dependent upon the prevailing winds and could not adhere to invisible lines drawn in the water.

It actually fits the spirit of the time quite well. During early colonization especially the spanish and portugues argued for "Mare Clausum" - that means they wanted to claim all seas that bordered their shores including all seaways including jurisdiction and the right to determine who would be allowed to sail there
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mare_clausum

That went so far that the spanish considered the whole Pacific Ocean a mare clausim under their rule (after all they claimed the whole western american coast in their inflated claims that they never actually controlled) and the Phillipines.

Denmark did the same with it´s Sound Dues it collected from everyone passing between the North and East-/Baltic Sea.

Only when more colonizers established themselves did the Netherlands argue for Mare Liberum, e.g. by Grotius which meant the seas belong to noone and are open to ships and trade of everyone.

That was opposed by England which claimed it´s own territorial waters and it´s colonies to be closed to foreign ships (e.g. with the Act of Navigation they tried to control trade in that only english ships should be allowed to trade with english colonies).

And after a lot of arguing and some wars like the 3 english-dutch sea wars, most agreed after 1702 that the open seas are free to everyone but all countries may claim their territorial waters up to the range of cannons (the then valid 3-mile-rule).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-mile_limit

Cultural borders can already be opened to other colonizers by granting them open borders ingame using diplomacy . But for those AI´s that are not my friends? Why should I allow them to trade with my colonies? No, if they want to sail close to my shores they either have to ask and bribe me for open borders or declare war and fight me for it

 

[Fürstbischof]

It actually fits the spirit of the time quite well. During early colonization especially the spanish and portugues argued for "Mare Clausum" - that means they wanted to claim all seas that bordered their shores including all seaways including jurisdiction and the right to determine who would be allowed to sail there

That went so far that the spanish considered the whole Pacific Ocean a mare clausim under their rule (after all they claimed the whole western american coast in their inflated claims that they never actually controlled) and the Phillipines.

That's a big cannon to hit my tiny tweak to help the ai.

The fun part of the papal bulls and the treaty of Tordesillas is that neither Spain nor Portugal was willing to accept the final say of the Pope and eventually worked out a compromise which suited them both. Other (catholic) kings simply ignored their treaty since they couldn't be forced to adhere it. Well, that is the status quo in the game.

Denmark did the same with it´s Sound Dues it collected from everyone passing between the North and East-/Baltic Sea.

Denmark's Sound Tolls are an entirely different topic since there was no alternative route which wasn't controlled by Denmark, too. Denmark was able to enforce the Sound Toll: you couldn't argue with their coastal batteries.

Only when more colonizers established themselves did the Netherlands argue for Mare Liberum, e.g. by Grotius which meant the seas belong to noone and are open to ships and trade of everyone.

That was opposed by England which claimed it´s own territorial waters and it´s colonies to be closed to foreign ships (e.g. with the Act of Navigation they tried to control trade in that only english ships should be allowed to trade with english colonies).

And after a lot of arguing and some wars like the 3 english-dutch sea wars, most agreed after 1702 that the open seas are free to everyone but all countries may claim their territorial waters up to the range of cannons (the then valid 3-mile-rule).

The Navigation Acts might be a nice addition to the game by regulating how your colony trades with the motherland, Africa or other Europeans. You can obey or not, which could create tensions with your king. Once you've created a sizeable colonial economy your king might force on you increasingly tighter regulations thus forcing you to disobey eventually. Otherwise you'd suffer from lower prices and smaller export markets. Trade regulations could be another source of tensions besides building up a large army, denying your kings wishes or his tax hikes.

Cultural borders can already be opened to other colonizers by granting them open borders ingame using diplomacy . But for those AI´s that are not my friends? Why should I allow them to trade with my colonies? No, if they want to sail close to my shores they either have to ask and bribe me for open borders or declare war and fight me for it

But you do have a point in saying that you can trade with them by changing this setting. I wasn't aware of this since I've never traded with other Europeans. If it works that way, the right to trade (Free Trade) should be separated from the right of passage.

Nonetheless, the current situation re: cultural borders at sea is more to the detriment of the ai than to the player.


EDIT: Sorry to disappoint you, but a quick test revealed that changing this setting does not allow your ships to enter their ports. You still need to sign an Open Borders agreement with them to trade with their colonies.

 

[CurtnoAnna]

Where do you find "<bRivalTerritory>0</bRivalTerritory>"

 

[Fürstbischof]

The CIV4UnitInfos.xml file can be found in \Assets\XML\Units.

Search for DOMAIN_SEA to find the ships more quickly.

 

[CurtnoAnna]

I'm going to try the setting at "1" and see how it goes

 

[raystuttgart]

Hi Vaeringar,

I have been in hospital / rehab the last 2 months.
(Explained to the team internally but do not feel like talking about it much more in public.)

That is why I have not commented on this earlier.
However, I just read this here because it was mentioned internally by @Mr. ZorG and I generally still care about "my baby".
(To be more specific he asked about integration of your mod into the core mod.)

So I will give a few comments on this.
(Just giving you examples.)

The main reason why this submod should not yet be included in the WTP main mod:

It is an absolute no-go to fully integrate this sub-mod into the mod before these issues are solved.
(They are most likely not that difficult to solve though if somebody takes the time to do so.)

>> Known issues:

- First Rate ship is currently disabled (still in world builder) as it crashes on move. The problem is in the .nif, which I don't know how to solve myself.
- Some of the new ship models lack animations. I don't know how to make these, though some can be ported from other mods/submods ("#todo").
- Some founding fathers need to be updated.

The "I do not know because I have not tried the mod":
(I can not sit in my chair for long enough to really enjoy playing a game like WTP.)

At first look that sounds interesting though, but things like this really depend on "Has it been done properly with quality in mind?".
(And if the team says it is good, then I fully trust the team.)

>>*Overhauled naval promotions and added 2 new ones.

>> Overhauled Ships.

@Schmiddie :
I would really like to get your opinion on it, since it involves a lot graphical changes.
Have you checked it? Do you like it?

The good

Generally there are a few things in here I really like.

e.g. This here I had suggested myself:

>>*Ships now have base vision range of 2 instead of 1 # https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/increasing-range-of-vision-on-ocean.664715/
# @ CIV4TerrainInfos.xml (TERRAIN_OCEAN)

This here sounds really nice:

>> Doubled the number of unique historical pirate-ship captain names, swapped some (privateer<->p.frigate), and corrected a few with typos.

The bad:

Others however would not be acceptable for me because AI could not handle it properly.
(That is also the reason why I had to vote with "No" - Sorry, but AI must not be harmed!)

Bad idea.
AI does not really care much if a Unit is an Expert or not for Scouts and Pioneers.
This will just profit the Human Player and make Scouting and Transports harder for AI.

- Scout & Pioneer profession no longer allows moving into peak # @ CIV4ProfessionInfos.xml
# Note that "seasoned scout", "hardy pioneer", and "converted native" can do so regardless of profession.

Very very bad idea !
AI would not buy enough ships anymore and it already has a huge issue transporting its colonists from Europe to the colonies.

- Note: ships can be expensive, VERY expensive.

The "I do not like it but it is mostly just a matter of taste":

Others I do not like because they kind of "deactivate a feature":
(Pirates already appear pretty late and they are programmed a bit to be "AI friendly" anyways.)

>>*Delayed pirate spawn (pirates have become more impactful as a secondary effect)
# @ GlobalDefinesAlt.xml # MIN_ROUND_PIRATES BASE_CHANCE_PIRATES TIMER_PIRATES

The "Ok, why not":

Things like that I had done myself sometimes as well but often reverted them in other games again.
They simply make the game "easier" (for Human and AI, thus help AI) and speed up the early game a bit.

>> Colonials now start with a combo of caravels and a carrack
# @ CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml

>> Treasure can be carried by any ship with 4 slots (instead of requiring 6).
# @ CIV4UnitInfos.xml

I am pretty sure however, that there are a lot of people - especially the "Hardcore Players" will not like that.
These changes are heavily toned for "Casual Players".

The "I wanted do it differently but never got to it" :

Yes, you are 100% right about AI considering the "Hunter Promotions".
Other Promotions are much much better for normal military Units.

I had never changed / removed these Promotions, because I had wanted / thought about an "Outdoor / Roaming Hunter Profession" that would be hunting "Wild Animals".

(Basically a "Combat Gatherer" Unit - new UnitCombatType with specific Promotions.
It is one of the 1000 features I had planned and made techincal concepts but never got to implement it.)

-- Disabled land hunter promotion. Standard promotions are a much better long-term option, and the AI wasted their military units' promotions on it.

-------------

Summary:

1. Before the graphical issues and the FFs issues are solved this mod should not be included.
(Sorry to be so explicit, but @Mr. ZorG wanted to fully include the mod, if I read his posts correctly.)

However, once these issues are solved, we can talk again.
(Some of your minor balancing change that do not affect graphics or FFs might be integrated earlier as well, if the team likes them.)

2. If @Schmiddie likes the changes you made to Ship graphics and Promotions, I would not mind if that part gets integrated in the mod once the issues are solved.
(@Schmiddie is the person for me to decide on that because he made most of the original Ship graphics and I do not like to change another team members work without his consent.)

3. Please do not integrate the changes to movement on Peaks only for Experts because it is not a good idea for AI.

5. Definitely please do not integrate the heavy price increases for Ships. AI will suffer heavily if it does not have enough Ships to transport goods and colonists and it will also suffer if it does not have enough military ships to protect itself.

5. If this gets included it should be included by a skilled / experienced modder - or an skilled / experienced modder should at least check it.
(There are really massive small changes that are kind of easy to mess up, if you never really modded XML or graphics in Civ4Col.)

-------------

So here you have my 2 cents.
Since I am currently not active it is not my decision though.

-------------

@Vaeringjar

Sorry if I sounded critical.
I am sometimes just still a little bit protective when it comes to "my baby".

Generally I really appreciate that new modders like you use WTP and try to improve it by themselves.

As I said, my main problem are the "issues" you are posting yourself.
Once those are solved, I would have a much better feeling.

Have fun modding and maybe get in closer contact with the WTP team.
The team is always looking for talented new modders.

 

[raystuttgart]

@Mr. ZorG

The following is a reaction on one of the internal modders chat post I read and does not affect the currently public versions of the mod.
(It only affects my old development Branch "Large Rivers" that contains the new currently unpublished features.)

!!! Warning !!!

I read that you want to integrate this into "Large Rivers". This needs to be integrated / merged very carefully into that branch.
If you just copy paste it, you will completely kill the "Large Rivers" feature, as you will overwrite important XML changes of the feature for Units and Promotions that are needed for it.

 

[raystuttgart]

Seeing the sillyness occasionally produced by cultural borders at sea I'm tempted to advise setting "<bRivalTerritory>0</bRivalTerritory>" to 1 so that all naval units can enjoy the "Freedom of navigation". During the Age of Sail ships were dependent upon the prevailing winds and could not adhere to invisible lines drawn in the water.

@Fürstbischof

That sounds like a pretty good idea - especially for AI.
(But I also like the general gameplay impact.)

• It would solve rare AI issues where Ships got locked in an Ocean pocket.
• Especially for Large Rivers (new feature in Branch "Large Rivers" it would also make a lot of sense, otherwise Ocean access for Cities at Large Rivers could to easily be blocked for AI)

 

[raystuttgart]

Are your light ships able to use the shallow "Large Rivers"?

Not sure what you mean?

"Large Rivers" is a new feature in the unpublished feature branch that is also called "Large Rivers".
(It also contains several other small new features, events, bug fixes and improvements.)

It exists since almost 6 months.
It simply has not been published yet.

It still had issues that however should mostly be fixed now. (by @devolution )
Once I am healthy enough again, I will try to give it some more intensive testing and give at least some feedback to the WTP team.

I still hope that "Large Rivers" will one day get finished, integrated and published ...
(There really has been a lot of work involved creating all these new features.)

 

[raystuttgart]

... when buying units in Europe, the price does not increase ...

@Vaeringjar

1. @Mr. ZorG writes that you also deactivate price increases for buying Ships in Europe.
Is that correct? (Did you do it just for Ships or also for Land Units?)

Spoiler :

It is actually another absolute nogo for me, because it really makes the game "too casual".
Unless of course you make the Ships incredibly expensive from the start as it seems you did. But again, that is really really bad for AI.

The only solution for having both would be: Human only rules / easier AI rules
(The overwhelming majority of players hates that though. Also including some team members.)

e.g. the following:

1. Ship prices start incredibly high and do not increase (as you currently have)
2. AI however pays much less so it can stay compatible (configurable in XML) <-- new addition to be programmed in DLL
3. Land Unit prices stay as they currently are and also still increase as currently configured

Programming effort would be only about 10min including testing for an experienced modder.
(However as I said, I really do not believe this would be accepted by team and community.

2. Also from the XML he attached it seems that you made "Man O' War" purchasable.

Spoiler :

"Purchasable Man O' War" has been requested already 10 times at least by "Casual players" since TAC ...
(And every single time we had voting for that topic it was rejected by "Hardcore Playes" ...)

I personally prefer that they can not be bought, because it really makes the endgame too easy.
(However it is just a minor matter of taste and I can live with both since it can be changed so easily in XML.)

Are there any other changes in your files that you have not explicitly listed yet?

---

Of course you can do everything in your modmod you want.
(As long as it is not part of the core mod, it is not our business.)

But @Mr. ZorG requested to integrate your mod mod (or at least parts of it) into WTP core mod.
Thus I am asking / discussing such details.

Once we talk about integrating your mod, minor details like that start getting important.
Because once it is integrated, the team will need to be conviced about it, otherwise we end changing back and forth endlessly ...
(Community really tends to discuss a lot about such minor XML balancing changes.)

 

[Mr. ZorG]

@raystuttgart , I answer on all counts.

1. I immediately wrote that the number of ships is too large. I have attached a screen about the list of ships. yes, First Rate ship throws an error, so it is not listed. but even if there were no mistake, I personally do not see the point in so many warships and merchant ships. but, as you also said earlier, everything is discussed)

2. "Vaeringjar said: - Scout & Pioneer profession no longer allows moving into peak. also a rather controversial decision. not everyone agrees with him."
I disagree, but I can live with it. need to be discussed.

3. "Vaeringjar said: - Note: ships can be expensive, VERY expensive."
now the price of ships and troops is fixed and does not increase. I also wrote about this. it is not right. the price should go up. but initially the price is already quite high. and as it rises, it will be even higher. I think Vaeringjar meant it.

4. "Vaeringjar said: - Colonials now start with a combo of caravels and a carrack."
I disagree with that. on any maps, this gives a significant increase in scouting points.
By the way, the Seasoned Scout should also reduce movement points. in sub-mode he has them 3. taking into account the Raises there will be 5. that's a lot. discussion?)

5. "Vaeringjar said: >> Treasure can be carried by any ship with 4 slots (instead of requiring 6)."
considering the cost of the ships in the sub-mod, this is a good suggestion. ships are expensive and cannot be bought frequently. not enough money)))

6. you said: "Before the graphical issues and the FFs issues are solved this mod should not be included."
there are no problems with graphics. and the FF should have been adjusted for a long time. I suggested one correction.

7.you said: "Definitely please do not integrate the heavy price increases for Ships. AI will suffer heavily if it does not have enough Ships to transport goods and colonists and it will also suffer if it does not have enough military ships to protect itself . "
I have spent quite a few hours playing with this mod. AI was not harmed. he also sank my ships regularly)))

8. LR have not been published yet, we are only testing them !!!
I was asked for a tool for a test, not to mindlessly integrate a sub-mod into the LR.

@Vaeringjar

1. @Mr. ZorG writes that you also deactivate price increases for buying Ships in Europe.
Is that correct? (Did you do it just for Ships or also for Land Units?)

for all units. I wrote it right away.

2. Also from the XML he attached it seems that you made "Man O' War" purchasable.
... I personally prefer that they can not be bought, because it really makes the endgame too easy.

please believe me - it is not.

 

[Mr. ZorG]

and finally: I do not require immediate sub-mod integration!
I asked the question: does anyone want to be integrated? so where are all the players? the topic was seen by 270 people, and only 6 people voted ....... but the changes are very interesting.