Wait... how DO you practically keep a City State happy?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Seanirl, Oct 1, 2010.

  1. Seanirl

    Seanirl U-Boat Commander

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    I have a cultural CS that I had allied with me (maybe it was when I destroyed Edinburgh... I think so) but since it's gone to less than friendly I think. I COULD give them money with the piles I got after decimating Siam and India (in pure defense, I swear!:mischief:) but then it'd only degrade quite quickly again.

    Is there something I'm missing completely about how to deal with CSes? I mean, I don't want to pick Greece or go with Patronage just to get CS boni but it would be very useful and right now... I'm not sure where Copenhagen (their latest enemy) is exactly, nor would I be completely confident of wiping them out quickly. Then after I did... I'd be back to square one.

    So, are CSes fickle things that go in and out of your grasp inevitably unless you commit a serious amount of your gold/social policies to them? Or is there some saner way?
     
  2. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    The main way to get CS bonuses is through gold bribes.

    The bonuses are nice, but you have to pay.

    In the early game you can often get friendships by destroying barbarian camps or liberating workers (the easiest free influence), but later that won't happen much.

    Make sure you look at the personality of the city state; if they're hostile then influence degrades faster, don't bother with them. And if they're friendly, influence degrades more slowly, these are better partners.

    If you aren't using Greece or Patronage or Siam, then you're probably going to find its not worth keeping more than a couple of city states onside.

    Be very wary about declaring war on any city state though, even to fulfill a mission; if you start declaring war on city states, then they will all hate you, and influence will degrade faster, and eventually they will all declare permanent war on you.
     
  3. aimlessgun

    aimlessgun King

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    You should be able to do it with gold, as long as you avoid the 'Hostile' ones. Practically though if you're not Greek you can't sustain tons of them at once.
     
  4. Chibiabos

    Chibiabos Prince

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    I noticed all city states will become hostile to you, even if THEY declare war on YOU (when they are allied with a major power that declares war on you as well). That really sucks. Too bad liberating city states doesn't work in the reverse ... it gives you a lot of good points toward that particular city state, but won't undo your penalty for declaring war or having war declared upon by another city state.
     
  5. King Jason

    King Jason Fleece-bearer

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    One thing I've been noticing that if you have a string of allied city-states, one quest they'll never give you is to wipe out another CS that you're allied with. In this sense, it's best to ally with as many City-states that haven't given you that quest as early as possible because the requests become quite easy to fulfill. Rival CS become gold dumps as they never change their quest even if you bring the rival into the fold.

    As the game goes on they'll primarily ask you to either build roads to their city (which can be destroyed after you get the influence), generate Great people, or build a wonder.

    Also, if ever a city-state is attacked, joining in on the war and killing the soldiers of it's enemy nets influence, but you may rather let the city get taken and then liberate it for an even bigger gain.
     
  6. Seanirl

    Seanirl U-Boat Commander

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    Really? That's what I was afraid of :(

    It just seems that 250 gold (which is a reasonable sum) doesn't get you very far.

    How do you manage to get that kind of money?
     
  7. King Jason

    King Jason Fleece-bearer

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    Firstly always pay the 500 to establish the ally, then deposit 250 as you're about to lose them. Since the decay is X per turn depending on speed (it's listed on the city-state bar), and it tells you how much influence you get for the gold... you know how many turns you're getting.

    Cash can be acquired in a lot of ways; One easy way is to trade luxuries for the A.I.'s lump sums ~ "exploits" aside, Civs with a decent relationship with you should pay 300 gold easily for a luxury. The deals last 25 turns, which is usually less than how long a city-state will be your ally if you payed them 250g when they were at 60 inf.

    Other minor boosts to income include: Selling Open Borders ~ I find most civs will by it for 50g, so sell your open borders to 5 civs and you've got the cash to resume the city-state alliance. Selling strategic resources ~ and most profitable; War without conquest (going to war, pillaging all of your enemy's improvements, and then ransoming peace for huge amounts of gold and GPT)

    All of these are suggestions that don't include making large sums of money off your empire naturally ~ with high gold output cities or utilizing trade post spam, etc. etc.

    Somebody did the math somewhere and it's about 8gpt to maintain an alliance with a city-state (I'm aware the amount of influence drops, obviously 8gpt isn't a static number. It probably fluctuates from 6-12ish, even still, that's marginal GPT)... When viewed in that light, they're a fine investment... especially Maritime states.
     
  8. DaveGold

    DaveGold Emperor

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    You can specialize in great merchants and send them into your city states for money and influence. With the right policies this can be entirely practical.
     
  9. Pinstar

    Pinstar Ringtailed Regent

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    Greece can play fast and loose with city states. Every city state I met I dumped 1000 g on and at the end of the game only one city state had dipped into the friendly categoy...and that was a hostile one that I bribed early on, pre patronage.
     
  10. bobbyboy29

    bobbyboy29 I was saying boo-urns...

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    Almost all city states will come up with at least one "mission" for you to do for them during a game. Often they are quite trivial and easy, it's essentially fre influence and I regularly go for them. Some missions include:
    1) Build a road to their territory (usually close city states will ask for this one so its super easy and cheap influence
    2) Destroy an enemy nearby city state (This is pretty common but it gives you a good incentive to take out a city)
    3) Hook up a resource for them(They don't take it from you they just want you to acquire it). Again, its pretty easy to trade for a luxury temporarily or you could ally with a CS that has the luxury requested and get 2 for the price of one! One time i was asked to hook up iron... way too easy!
    4) Build a wonder. Another easy one especially if you were going to build it any way.

    These mini missions are usually easy and its a cheap way to get some big city state bonuses. With patronage it becomes super cheap to have great relations with a lot of city states.
     
  11. Mutineer

    Mutineer Deity

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    Very easy. Sell your resources.
    Lets see, civ usually pay 270$ for 30 turns of lux resource.

    New allied city state give you one Lux resource, which you can not sell.

    So, you replacing your own Lux resource with city state one.

    for 250$ you are getting about 30 influence (modified by policies).

    It will drop 1 influence/ turn for normal city state 1.2 for hostile, again modified by policies.

    But bottom line 1 resource buy you one city state, well support 1 city state. You need to some how get it to +60 yourself ( your own gold or quest).

    All game is based on AI or city state exploit. For me it is feel like games we played when PC's were just invented. For god sake, moving dots around and killing everything with 3 supper strong units are not fun anymore.
     
  12. jauggy

    jauggy Warlord

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    Easiest way is to wait for an AI to declare war on a city state - then kill 3 of the AI's units (workers included) and you will be allied with the city state.

    Make peace with the AI as soon as possible.
     
  13. skywalker

    skywalker Waffle

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    I'm pretty sure this isn't true; I'm pretty sure I've had allied city-states ask me to wipe each other out.
     
  14. skywalker

    skywalker Waffle

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    City-states are just not that expensive. If you're a normal civ, it's 8.3~ gpt. If you're Greece, it's 4.16~. If you have the patronage policy that increases influence by 25%, it's 6.6~. Etc. The bonus from a Maritime or Cultural city is far, far more valuable than the gold cost. Spend it freely.
     
  15. Seanirl

    Seanirl U-Boat Commander

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    True... I've made loooooads of money from selling my 23+ horses to Rome. They go for about 225 for 5 or something.

    Still, with my large empire now I need that money to rush happiness buildings since my entire economy (and more to the point... military) is crippled.

    Is it really worth the money to keep a Cultural CS happy? I liked getting the culture but considering the money it costs... maybe I should focus on something else? Then again you need SPs and I don't exactly have a ton of culture lying around.
     
  16. player1 fanatic

    player1 fanatic Fanatic

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    I noticed that when I've gone into war with one civilization, that all city states (non-hostile) had their influence decay for 2 points, instead just one. Making further investments in them much more expensive.

    If I made peace with that civ, and after a few turns, it still stayed that way. Before in the game, I did wipe out two city states (both assignments by other city states). Also during war with that civilization, he had several city state allies.

    So what exactly led to that -2 modifier? I'm currently in industrial era (just entered), if that matters. And have 4 city state allies, but I doubt I'll be able to afford them now.
     
  17. PericlesOfAthen

    PericlesOfAthen Consul

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    If you get the two patronage social policies, one that slows the depreciation and one that boasts the influence you get with gifts of gold, then it really helps a lot. I played my first game on the setting one set below prince with Napoleon and by industrial age I had three maritime allies, four diplomatic and one military. It can make a huge difference but it's not really worth the gold at the beginning of the game better to wait till you can get one of the patronage social policies and after you're civ is already producing a decent amount of gold.
     
  18. XOVERX

    XOVERX Chieftain

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    My first game was with Greece.

    I kept all the city-states happy. Every single one. Wound up winning a diplomatic victory quite easily.

    I didn't know what I was doing for awhile and inadvertently let some bigger civs on other continents destroy some of "my" city-states, which I later discovered I could have kept alive quite easily by gifting units to them, but, at that time in the game, I didn't know how to finish the gifts.

    I opened Patronage, but never wound up needing it at all. After awhile natural game-play basically kept them serviced.

    Greek companion cavalry swiftly and decisively destroyed all civs on my continent very early on, and from there, I controlled all the city-states I ever met, militaristic or not, and they gifted me amazing amounts of all resources and culture they had.

    If you do play Greece, build an ocean-going vessel as early as possible, to locate other city-states, and then keep them alive by gifting units when they go to war. Then build the UN, and victory is yours quite easily.
     
  19. UncleJJ

    UncleJJ Deity

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    Another good way to get influence with city states is to send a great merchant to them, on a trade mission. In my last game that gave me 550 gold and 35 influence (which would cost 250 to buy). That makes a GM trade mission worth 800 gold.

    Quite a few CS will request that you make a great person of a particular type, I've seen GE, GS and GM being requested. I can't remember how much influence you get for that mission, but it is very valuable as it doesn't matter how you get the great person. You can generate them yourself using GPPs or get the SP that allows your allied CS to give you free great people ;). I have had 2 of my allied CS request a GM and fulfilled both missions a few turns later when I produced one, which I sent on a trade mission to another CS.
     
  20. King Jason

    King Jason Fleece-bearer

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    So far I've never had it happen when both of them were my allies unless it was already requested, I started paying attention to it a few days ago. Could be luck, though. I'll take a look at the xml and see if I can find it in there.
     

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