1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Walk Me Through Noble.

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Tadzio, Mar 1, 2010.

  1. Tadzio

    Tadzio Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2010
    Messages:
    32
    I'm having a number of difficulties winning a Noble game which seem to point at fundamental problems in my play that I think I'm too inexperienced to identify. I could use some help! I feel inadequate in every realm, pretty much. From Tech Selection, to City Specialization, to Diplomacy, and even Warfare. So, I'mma make a game and try to talk through it with you guys. Hopefully it'll get some interest.

    So here's our start (fractal/standard/normal):

    Huayna Capac, Incan Empire

    Spoiler :


    Spoiler :


    I'm thinking of going Hunting, The Wheel, Animal Husbandry, then Mining and Bronzeworking. I also think I should place my capitol right where the settler is and start making a Worker while my Quechua goes scouting first to the north and then around to the east in a circular movement. I believe to my West is the Coast so I don't have to worry about anything from that direction.

    Anyway, I'll wait for some feedback before deciding.
     
  2. Absolute Zero

    Absolute Zero Settler

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2009
    Messages:
    245
    Location:
    USA
    I'm around this level, too. I think I'll follow this and see if I can learn from it.

    I agree with your tech path, placement, etc. Although I'm not so sure if AH is needed before Mining/BW.
     
  3. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    Messages:
    22,469
    Too bad you don't have a scout. I would consider settling on the jumbo 1W. The benefit is increased production on the starting tile and what appears to be a coastal city as opposed to "1-off" the coast which I don't like. Hopefully, there is seafood there. The downside is you may be taking out some hills from your cap. However, you have decent food and if seafood then you may have a gp farm and can move the cap or conquer one later with Quechas. The plains jumbos will provide decent hammers anyway.

    I recommend posting saves at intervals - say 50 to 100 turns - and folks here will review your save and provide input. If you post a start save, some may even play along and show you different ways of playing this out.

    I would go for the terrace soon for culture in other cities as opposed to monuments (don't build any). Oracle and Great Lighthouse may be good plays here. I would go AH before the wheel.
     
  4. civ_z

    civ_z Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    8
    Do you mind providing a save (4000 BC)? I would like to try my hand at your start. I'm a noble player and have been trying to wean myself from wonder building with HC.
     
  5. cas

    cas Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2002
    Messages:
    1,108
    Location:
    Phoenix
    I would move the Quecha 1SW and see if there is seafood. If so, settle 1W. If no seafood, tough choice between 1W and 1E of current settler position. 1E gives you more land tiles in the long run. Settling 1-off the coast is generally not good.

    Why hunting-wheel first ? Are you going to build scouts and roads ? AH first. You already have agriculture for the corn, but the cow is a 3f3h tile with pasture...better than elephant camp for growth. If you have horses in the BFC, wheel second. If you have seafood & no horses fishing second. If you have no seafood / no horses, hunting second. Post a screenshot after you move the Quecha.

    cas
     
  6. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    Messages:
    22,469
    I don't know. Hunting may be the better play as he needs it anyway and it provides a bonus on AH. He should get both in before the worker at least finishes the corn if not built. However, if there is seafood I failed to mention that fishing may be a good start.
     
  7. Tadzio

    Tadzio Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2010
    Messages:
    32
    Sure. It's BTS with the BUGmod.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Tadzio

    Tadzio Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2010
    Messages:
    32
    It's already moved. It was 1E prior to that Screenshot.
     
  9. michmbk

    michmbk Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2008
    Messages:
    1,415
    Location:
    D.C. Area
    My initial impression would be to settle on one of the ivory tiles - likely W. Improved ivory isn't that great, and it'd give you one extra riverside grassland tile. Your capital is likely to be a strong bureau capital with nice cottages, just from what we see. It looks like it's coastal, so I'd definitely want to either be on the ivory or east.

    Typically if you're learning noble though, you may be best off just settling in place for the most part in games - no need to complicate things too much in the early game when you're still learning the fundamentals of the game.

    I'd either go AH or mining/bw to start. Hunting and the wheel, while both useful, aren't as important initially. You're not likely to work the ivory until size 3 or 4 at least, so might as well get your corn and cow improved, and start looking for your military resources (horse, copper) to claim.

    Your wet corn is by far the most important tile you have, so that's first priority obviously.

    It'll also help if you tell us what you struggle with - too many wonders? Not enough units? City specializing? We may see that if you post every 50 turns or so, but recognizing some of those things will help improve your play.
     
  10. Tadzio

    Tadzio Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2010
    Messages:
    32
    I decided to follow cas advice to start.

    Here is the state of things atm.

    Spoiler :


    My worker is complete and is moving in position to develop the cow. It looks like there's Tundra to the south. Napoleon of France is to the east, and is likely nearby. West isn't just coastal areas, as you can see. I'm currently teching Hunting. I'll wait for more feedback before I progress. Thanks.
     
  11. CarlH

    CarlH Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    137
    Location:
    Sydney
    def settle on one of the ivory for the addedd production.

    HC probably isnt the best person to learn with as you may get coaxed into a quecha rush (i cant resist when I play HC) and a warrior rush is not a viable strategy once you start moving up.

    OK: try and find louis' cultural borders and, depending on how close he is, think about quecha rushing him.
     
  12. Tadzio

    Tadzio Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2010
    Messages:
    32
    I'm not positive. My cities frequently run out of improvements to build, so I have to build military units, which are a drag on my economy and slows my tech so I get more culture techs so I can build more city improvements and I delete excess military units to improve my economy (wasting the shields), then around the 1800s someone attacks me, takes a few cities and I give up.

    In the games where I avoid conflict, I generally lose the Spacerace to someone or someone else gets elected UN world leader (with my power score being 3rd-4th).

    Just overall, I'm feel I'm lacking.... yet weaker difficulty levels are too easy and I don't feel like I learn anything from them.
     
  13. michmbk

    michmbk Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2008
    Messages:
    1,415
    Location:
    D.C. Area
    I played a few turns to offer some perspective. Don't open spoiler until you've at least played 25 turns, but it does highlight something for future games.


    Spoiler :



    Bang - 2 capitals, one lost quechua and a bunch of land to settle peacefully now, without an annoying close neighbor. Not only that, I got improved corn and fish. Got unlucky, because I didn't get his worker, but still, this is a nice booty for simply doing this:



    This is also a good learning point. On prince or below, you always have the option of starting with warriors (quechuas in your case) and taking a nearby capital. It's not optimal play once you hit monarch (except perhaps for Huayna), but as you're learning noble, you may want to play some games where you try that start - with a 3 hammer tile in the capital's BFC and a victim less than a dozen tiles away, warrior rush is a snap.
     
  14. michmbk

    michmbk Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2008
    Messages:
    1,415
    Location:
    D.C. Area
    So that's suggesting city specialization - cities shouldn't be building everything. A simple thing I did as I was moving up the levels (until it became secondhand for me) was try to designate at least 1 commerce city, a GP farm and a production city in my first 4-5 cities total. The commerce city should be heavily cottaged, and is likely building research & gold multiplier buildings only (library, uni, market, bank...). The production city has decent food and hammers and churns out units, and the GP farm runs specialists. Having that simple rule in place helped me - now it happens naturally (although i forget my GP farms sometimes).

    If you run out of things to build and build units, you need to use them for something - knock some heads. If all your cities are reasonably specialized and you're following those guidelines, you shouldn't lose the space race on noble.
     
  15. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    Messages:
    22,469
    Tadzio - did you build worker first? hunting first?

    Spoiler :
    also, Nappy is a good quecha rush option. He's a complete azz!
     
  16. cas

    cas Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2002
    Messages:
    1,108
    Location:
    Phoenix
    Yes, you are right. Once he moved and found no seafood, it would have been better by 1 turn going hunting->AH since the worker will not be done farming the corn before both are researched. Forgot about that small research bonus.

    cas
     
  17. Tadzio

    Tadzio Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2010
    Messages:
    32
    Worker and Animal Husbandry. Currently teching Hunting.
     
  18. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    Messages:
    22,469
    ha...cool

    I'm not sure why folks diss jumbo tiles. I think plains jumbos are great especially river/plains jumbos with a FIN leader. Of course, you want food first and enough to support them, but this is a great bureau cap with decent production and good cottage land.

    @ Tadzio - I've attached a save until around @2500 for your review with some notes below

    Spoiler :
    You've really got a nice start here. I'd like to have seafood but the jumbo tiles are great with food to support it.

    Nappy is gone. I could have taken him with less Quechas but Noble level throws me off now since it's so easy. (Sorry, you'll see what I mean later when you get more experience). You should be able to send 4 or 5 Quechas over and likely surprise him with one Warrior in his cap and now BW to whip any more. After your first worker, build several quechas and send them east to destroy one of the worst AIs to have as a neighbor (think also Shaka and Monty) Nappy's cap will make a nice second city (and GP Farm) and it appears that you can settle the restof this land at your leisure.

    Although we don't know the other AIs yet or map, with Hyuana Industrious trait you should be able to get Stonehenge and Oracle easy(especially with marble to the east which you might want to settle next.

    Stonehenge though is not critical with the great Terrace, so you may ignore that one.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Tadzio

    Tadzio Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2010
    Messages:
    32
    Last update for today:

    Okay, so the consensus seemed to be to kill Napoleon asaply, and I did. After declaring war I stopped to pillage some farmland before attacking Paris. I attacked with 3 Quechua (the fourth pillaged earlier in the turn) and needed them all since Paris had a Warrior (that killed my first Quecha) and an Archer. Success is mine!

    In 2760BC I adopted Slavery.
    In 2680BC I whipped 2 pop for Stonehenge.
    In 2600BC I captured Paris, eliminating Napoleon.

    Screenshot/info:
    Spoiler :
    The current state of the empire:

    Current Tech:

    Military Strength:



    Both Cuzco and Paris will be producing Workers. I'm teching Pottery, atm, for cottages and Tarrace. After Pottery, I'm not sure whether I want to go straight into Writing, or if I wanna get Fishing first (Paris has some seafood). I'm leaning toward Fishing. I'm also thinking of using my excess military to fog bust and continue scouting to the north.

    This is where I'm considering placing my third city:

    Spoiler :
    It will have access to Corn and Marble. 1W won't have access to Corn, but will make better use of the landmass (hills won't be "wasted") Feedback would be nice.


    Hm... What else? Oh, right. I can't see any Copper or Horses. Should I switch tech to Ironworking?

    All advice/criticism is welcome. Thanks!
     

    Attached Files:

  20. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    Messages:
    22,469
    A few thoughts:

    a) check my save
    b) I would settle on the marble (i tend to think higher level and the need for speed but still the marble ensures you get oracle soon. Two farms can be put up now in the city and overlap with cap can work a cottage or two for a switcheroo. Later you can chain irrigate this city for a decent production site)
    c) 1 mistake I made in my save that I would not do at higher level is try to settle that gold up north for additional early commerce/gold/happy
    d) you should be able to get Oracle>GL>Colossus and take Metal Casting as free tech. Research monarchy
    c) try to settle coastal cities - there are several good ones to benefit most from Great Lighthouse
    d)I'd go Pottery and then beeline Priesthood before writing in this case
    e) I think the pillaging in this case was not a good idea when you only have one badly defended enemy city. you just have to build the farm back which could be there when the city comes out of revolt. Just send all your Quechas straight in and destroy Nappy.
    f)I'd say in this case IW is not crucial. Just fogbust and scout with your quechas
     

Share This Page