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Walk Me Through Noble.

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Tadzio, Mar 1, 2010.

  1. Sportyatuncw06

    Sportyatuncw06 Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    131
    Location:
    Raleigh, nc
    and here is 1515. I am not sure how to post screen shots But I will detail a few things in the spoiler for you
    Spoiler :
    I have produced a few workers and concentrated on improving terrain. I am not focusing on specialization as it isn't needed on noble and I am not great at it anyway. Although not ahead on the scorecard anymore the khemer are in must better shape. William is strong and Zara capitulated to him. Now that the economy and terrain are good I am planning to hit the Chinese. They are weak and will crumble but I have held off attacking them because Joao is lurking (he actually declared war right after your initial save. I had built up defenses and turned him away. He paid $$$ to end the war and after an arrogant demand for a petty tech his is now a good friend. Despite being the only Confucian state we are progressing relations and have made some tech trades to advance or science. The rate is now 80% we have a strong lead on everyone but william. Taking the jew capital in shanghai will fund the expansion of the empire. A few more kinghts and trebs and I will start the assult
     

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  2. Tadzio

    Tadzio Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2010
    Messages:
    32
    Gawd, I'm horrible. Since the first game you guys walked me through-- where I had two capitals and was isolated, so easy win-- I've just been failing left and right.

    In the last save of my most recent try, I'd just bribed Hammurabi to go to war with Hannibal. Suryavarman quickly DoW on Hammurabi, and I was like: "Sweet! I'm so clever! Hammurabi is my main rival and he'll be bogged down in several wars for a while!" Then, as if the smell of war had reminded him of something he'd been meaning to do, Shaka DoW on me. Within two turns he took one of my cities and was primed to take another, hardly having lost a single unit-- and WITHOUT siege units. All his units were the same tech level as mine, so I was baffled and disgusted and wept.... Anyway, rant aside, there must be some handy-dandy ways of avoiding such a rotten outcome. I've included my save for 4000BC, 2000BC, 1AD and 800AD (right after Shaka DoW'd me). As always, all criticism is welcome.

    Saves are BTS with BUGmod. Thanks!
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Norvin_Green

    Norvin_Green Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2007
    Messages:
    1,874
    Location:
    The Garden State
    Tadzio, had a few minutes to goof off at work today so I took your initial save and played until 2000 bc. I didn't open any of your saves though. I ran out of time so I will try later.

    Here is what the capital looks like as of now:

    Spoiler :

    As soon as the settler is able to be whipped I will do so and send it to the spot below



    Spoiler :


    I will more than likely just settle the stone, pig & copper city and go kill Shaka while keeping only his capital. I will continue to explore around his territory to see if I see him building axes, archers or impi's. All that jungle will be nice once its cleared out. That's why I teched mining>BW>IW first.


    edited: included save
     
  4. Bezurn

    Bezurn Prince

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2005
    Messages:
    587
    Workers, workers... and ... more workers.

    Unless you had some stolen from you, there are far too few workers for the amount of land you have. With the amount of jungle in your land you need at least 2 workers per city to clear out all that trash. You have at least 2-3 lux resources not hooked up that could help with the unhappiness in your cities (wine, gems). You also didn't clear the forest on the elephants, which gives you +1 food for each square.

    I notice you are running Caste system in the latest save, but don't seem to be taking advantage of it. You should still be in slavery as slavery is the fastest way to generate workers.

    When a city reaches size four, watch it closely. If it has a granary built in it (probably the first thing you should build as a creative leader). Then when it approaches the top of the growth cycle switch whatever it is working on to a worker (click city panel and CTRL+CLICK worker to put it in front of the queue. Then the next turn come back to that city and use slavery to get the worker out. The worker will give the city a lot of extra hammers in overflow production.

    So to maximize on this overflow production, put it into something you get a production modifier on. Since you are creative you get a bonus on Librarys, a very important bulding. So again CTRL click in a library and you can either finish it, or click the library off the list and let it continue to build what it was building. You can also use whip overflow to pump out a lot of troops, something you don't have enough of.

    When bordering a crazy leader like shaka who can and probably will DOW you with how close the two of you are, each border city needs at least 2 archers. One archer isn't enough as the first chariot / sword will lose, but your archer will be badly hurt so any other troop that attacks will make quick work of it.

    Also your city placement and number of cities is lacking. This has to do with workers though too, as you need lots of workers to build improvements for lots of cities. More cities working on financial cottages is very very powerful. You're creative borders have claimed a lot of land, but you are only using about 3/4 of it to its advantage.

    It seems you are automating your workers, which is ok somewhat. But if you don't mind the micro managing your work force, especially for your first 10 cities will give you a good advantage if you play them right.


    I will load up your intial starting point and show you how I would have played it. I will have a bit of advantage having seen the land, but I am good at scouting anyways.
     
  5. Tadzio

    Tadzio Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2010
    Messages:
    32
    How does it seem like I automated my workers?
     
  6. Bezurn

    Bezurn Prince

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2005
    Messages:
    587
    It was just a guess on my part. If not then maybe its your worker play that needs some help. The lack of clearing the jungle on the elephants made me think that. I got the first two checkpoints done on my playthrough. One at 1440 bc, and 100 bc. I'm doing pretty well but shaka's power is HUGE. I got some counter units coming through the pipe with two good unit pump cities. One online, other just founded.

    The capitol is freaking awesome for pumping out settlers. I've ignored all religions and all wonders this game and have just been making a mad dash to grab as much land as I can.

    I'm used to playing marathon so adjusting to the speed of normal took me a bit. Had to reload the 1440 save a few turns later when I lost the gems city. I still lost it anyways though so nothing was gained by the reload, just a speed attunement on my part.
     

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  7. Tadzio

    Tadzio Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2010
    Messages:
    32
    Naw, I thought that the act of building an improvement on a tile would auto-clear the jungle... like it does for farms, cottages, mines..... Do you have to manually clear the jungle for plantations and wineries too?
     
  8. Bezurn

    Bezurn Prince

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2005
    Messages:
    587
    Elephants on jungle are the only improvement that behave like that. The reason is because you can build elephant camps with hunting, but to clear the jungle you need to have iron working. All the calendar resources will auto clear it because calandar is further along in the tech tree than iron working.

    Spoiler :

    Shaka DOWed me at 450 AD. I lost a worker stealer group and 1 or 2 defenders. But overall it's like sending lemings to their death. He's attacked my unit pump at the stone site, and my gem city on the hill. His power delta has gone from .7 to .9. So I'm winning the defensive war :). Might go for Xbows and clean him up, but I need to build lots of cottages before I start doing that. Still have at least 4 cities I want to put down now but my econ is tanking.
     

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  9. Amao

    Amao King

    Joined:
    May 11, 2002
    Messages:
    735
    Location:
    Shanghai
    This is a rather hard map. Yes the capital has some good food. But it has very limited place to expand w/o venture into jungles. Also, there is the warmonger neighbor who is very likely to DoW on you at the first opportunity. Which means you have to constantly build up your army than improving your economy.
     
  10. Amao

    Amao King

    Joined:
    May 11, 2002
    Messages:
    735
    Location:
    Shanghai
    Here is my contribution to the opening

    Spoiler :

    I did my typical opening, Mining -> BW. And the warrior got lucky, popped AH and then 100+99 gold, then a map. First built a worker. The worker then first irrigate the rice, and then as BW is ready, chopped a tree, NE of the capital.

    Since I've got AH, next I researched Wheel -> Pottery -> Writing -> IW. Writing first because we are Creative with very cheap lib. Built one WB then a Warrior and let the pop to rise to 5. and then worker, warrior, settler, worker, lib, warrior, settler (still building). That's about it as just passed 2000BC.

    Diplo wise, nothing to say yet. I'm not going to OB with Shaka for sure. Hope this will deter him from DoW on me as long as possible. I'll keep check of my military ratio against Shaka constantly and keep it par to him at least.

    Maps
    Spoiler :



     
  11. Tadzio

    Tadzio Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2010
    Messages:
    32
    How do you guys put up those city layout thingees? I've been drawing BFC's in BUGmod manually, but it'd be nice to do it at the click of a button.
     
  12. Bezurn

    Bezurn Prince

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2005
    Messages:
    587
    Here's the screen shots of my early game.

    Spoiler :

    Worked grassland hill, built workboat x2. First tech hunting. Did this to get discount on animal husbandry, and to get archery units early. I only built 1 warrior this game.


    Warrior ignores nearby hut. I figure either my culture will pop it or my first defensive unit will. I go off to find other huts that the AI are more likely to find. All but 1 of the huts equaled gold, the odd one out gave my warrior XP, which I gladly gave woodsman II to get through the jungle and get the scouting done quick.






    Just when my warrior is about to pop the nearby ignored hut my culture saves the day and gives me even more gold!!


    Build order was workboat, workboat, worker, warrior, worker, settler.

    Tech order was hunting, AH, Mining, BW, wheel, IW, pottery, writing, alphabet, math, currency. The last two were key as they allowed me to backfill many many techs that I had neglected.

    Here you can see my dot map for the first few cities I plan. I would have to move the 4th city (really the 3rd) since shaka nabbed the spice. The gems helped a lot with happiness and keeping my expansion efforts afloat regardless.


    Fearing I would lose my 2nd city spot I rushed a settler regardless that I hadn't built a road to the site yet. Shaka puts down cities very quickly with his cheap workers so I wanted to get as many good spots from him as I could. Knowing your neighbors and their tendencies is a good thing to keep in mind.


    Go go choo choo train, warrior, settler, worker en route!


    Gem site settled 3rd, missed the spice :(


    For having this much jungle around I was wondering where the barbs were. Here they are attacking my first settlement. I've got workers building a road to the cow and iron spot so I can start building shock melee units instead of archers. This warrior delayed the road project for a few turns :(


    The second barb incursion. I waited for him to move onto the stone as I had a chariot out next turn. Thus if my archer failed to kill him (with 97% win chance) I'd still have a defender to mop him up. No bad luck for me as my archer survived though.


    I had a feeling I was on a pangea from my scouting. Seeing how shaka proves the world to be round in the BC's confirms that suspicion.


    After getting Aethetics for trade bait (though I wasn't first to it). I grab construction and put out a few catapults quickly. I station one at each border town and leave all of my shock troops unpromoted. Doing so lets me promote them when they are ready for battle so I know what to give them (this helps a lot more if you aggressive, but still putting woodsman or combat can help if you want to attack or fortify a position).

    At last the moment I knew would come. He has been my worst enemy for a long time so I knew this would happen as I'm the only one to share a border with him.


    His initial wave consisted of 1 swordsman, 3-4 chariots, and an impi or two.


    What happens when units run into well fortified walls?? They all died.


    Next he tries his luck with the gems city, which is sitting on a hill. He brings an impi, 2 chariots, and oh noes!!! a HORSE ARCHER!!11one. The only thing I have defending the city is one double hills archer, one green archer, and a catapult behind walls (my shock troops had to step outside to guard some workers working on the banana farm.)


    After that there were few troops that crossed the border, all of which were summarily dispatched. My economy couldn't bear an offensive war and I still had quite a few prime city sites to found sooner rather than later. So I took 100 or so gold from him for daring to attack me.

    I stopped taking SS's once I made peace with shaka, as the game was further and further going in my favor due to a successful expansion and defense of a war. Once my cottages starting to pick up steam it just got worse for the AI from there.

    I won the Economics and Liberalism race. I'll have dikes and when those are finished in most of my cities I'll have rifling. Anyone who thinks of attacking me then is out of their mind :p
     
  13. Bezurn

    Bezurn Prince

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2005
    Messages:
    587
    To do the Dot maps. Press ALT X to change your cursor to a city radius. Then click on the square you'd think you want to put the city. You can change the color depending on mood / type of city. Then press CTRL X to toggle the dotmap when you want to look at it / hide it.

    When you no longer want the Dot on a partilcular area, right click on the square you put the dot on the make it go away. You can override the color of an exisiting one by choosing a different color and clicking on the same square again. After I found a city on the dot I will get rid of it as I find the distracting to overall gameplay. A great tool to get a better understanding of where you want cities though.
     
  14. Norvin_Green

    Norvin_Green Emperor

    Joined:
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    1,874
    Location:
    The Garden State
    Tadzio, here's where I am at 1 a.d. I see Shaka is in WHEOOHRN so I'm building chariots to defend from a few axes. He won't be making them for long as I plan to pillage his copper with 2 chariots, take my axes and catapults to his capital and annex his ivory/rice/iron city with a few axes.
     
  15. Amao

    Amao King

    Joined:
    May 11, 2002
    Messages:
    735
    Location:
    Shanghai
    OK. I played a little more.

    Spoiler :

    Up to 675BC, I've got 6 cities. And the latest city is a gem. It both blocks Shaka and a super cottage site. Shaka went to war preparation mode earlier. He also grabbed the Spice/Stone city in the jungle. But I first get the copper/pig coast city so that I can have Axe asap. Once i saw Shaka busy, and figured there was no way he was going to war other than me, i simply built more Axes to improve my military strength to be at around his strength. And so far this strategy has prevented him from DoW. This does slow me down in getting more settlers and workers out. But the games goes down as when can I go to offensive side against Shaka. If I could strike him down, the game is basically won consider how many cities I'd have after that.

    Hope some of these info can be helpful. And I dont think I'll continue this game any further because I think the most difficult time is behind us. We just need to keep the military up (more Axes as Shaka grows his military), and when you want to go offensive, get Construction and/or HBR (we have tons of Elephants). If you want to go defensive, just stay with Axes and maybe some Spears should be enough to hold Shaka back while you are chasing the Bureaucracy and setting up the Cottage capital and more cottages and let your tech fly.

    Spoiler :

    Sealing Shake off


    The current dutch empire


    The things I have built


     

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