Want to Change Relation Modifiers for Higher Difficulties

[civguy1026]

Been a while since I've played this mod and had an urge to start another game. One thing I didn't like about playing on Deity or Nightmare difficulty was that every civilization you encountered hated you upon first contact. I get that it makes sense for the difficulty but its kind of immersion breaking for me to have every other nation conduct normal diplomacy while I'm hated by default. I appreciate all the other penalties on these difficulties but the relationship penalty I'm not a fan. So the question I have is if there is a way to simply change the penalty value of relationships on these higher difficulties?

 

[cobbaut]

So the question I have is if there is a way to simply change the penalty value of relationships on these higher difficulties?

Or is there a simple way to change the +2 when gifting resources to the AI. I always gift my excess random resources to get this +2, but when gifting (in addition) strategic stuff, then maybe this should be +3 or +4?

Although it should not be too easy, because by the time I get close to Classical then I usually have some friendly and some pleased. Maybe it is fine the way it is now... :-/

 

[Somebody613]

First of all, it depends on your general game tactic and strategy.
Are you planning to live and let live?
To conquer the entire world by consuming everyone?
To vassalize everyone without consuming them?
To destroy them via spy stealth?
Something else entirely?
All of these strategies have very different needs attitude-wise, some more demanding of friendliness than others, to an extent that in an all-out game you don't want friends to begin with.
Whereas in a secret spy-vs-spy game you'd want to pretend being everyone's friend... until it's suddenly too late for them, lol.
Really, this game (and mod) is flexible enough to have "victory conditions" BEYOND those officially listed - and even those are already a handful to choose from.
For one, you COULD make yourself a "victory condition" that is: "All other civs are destroyed... by Barbarians", loool.
It's POSSIBLE, ya know.
Which is why I love this game (and mod) so much - it's truly a never-ending pool of experience and fun (and frustration, lol).

 

[Toffer90]

Perhaps we should make a new game option? "Relation not affected by difficulty"

 

[Thunderbrd]

Perhaps we should make a new game option? "Relation not affected by difficulty"

I'd strongly support that since it's something that does bug me about increased difficulty settings is that it automatically comes with nearly impossible diplomacy.

 

[civguy1026]

I'm glad I'm not alone here! This relationship penalty is the only thing that turns me off from playing deity/nightmare. I know the modders are super busy but I'm hoping this idea at least becomes a consideration

 

[Somebody613]

I'm glad I'm not alone here! This relationship penalty is the only thing that turns me off from playing deity/nightmare. I know the modders are super busy but I'm hoping this idea at least becomes a consideration

Honestly, it depends on your playing style and strategy.
If you're planning on wiping everyone anyways, why do you care what these maggots think about you to begin with, lol?
If you want to play peacefully, though, yeah, then it's a problem, somewhat.
Or a challenge, hehehe.

Note: My "custom" Jerusalem MIGHT be a "cheat" with two Natural Wonders available, but I still managed to get to the Top-1 position in score, despite having to exchange and buy techs all the time.
Yes, on Nightmare (and Ultrafast, cause I hate slow games), indeed.
Note: By having 5 (conquered, I play with 1-city-limit) cities to everyone's 1 - I have no clue why AI thinks it's a bad idea to build more cities, lol.
For one, AI is rather bad with Size Matters, lol, so when you have 9x (or 27x) General-Noble units facing their 3x (or 9x, respectively) mundane units... yeah, you get the math.
Even if they still have much higher city defense, lol.
So, yeah, AI needs a ton of work to become competent against Size Matters, "sadly" (nah, I enjoy crushing them too much for me to care, loool).

 

[civguy1026]

Honestly, it depends on your playing style and strategy.

This is where the problem lies. I want to have an immersive game in peacetime as well as at war. With the modifiers in their current state, I'm barred from engaging in diplomacy. Furthermore, if I wanted to wipe everyone off the map, it would be more interesting to create allies and enemies through natural interactions rather than a predetermined variable I have no control over

 

[Maltazard]

Should be included in the "realistic diplomacy" option then.

 

[Somebody613]

This is where the problem lies. I want to have an immersive game in peacetime as well as at war. With the modifiers in their current state, I'm barred from engaging in diplomacy. Furthermore, if I wanted to wipe everyone off the map, it would be more interesting to create allies and enemies through natural interactions rather than a predetermined variable I have no control over

I agree.
I hope it gets sorted out soon, though I wouldn't prioritize it much anyways.

 

[JosEPh_II]

This is where the problem lies. I want to have an immersive game in peacetime as well as at war.

There were modders in the past that pushed for this. We called it a builder's game. But in the long run we were the minority as the War crowd's voice was louder by numbers and rank in the modder community. I think I'm the last of the builder type modder left. And I turned 70 this year sooo...

I do testing and Modding for the Civics. Usually on Emperor or Immortal difficulties and Blitz, Normal, and Long Game speeds (1000, 2000, and 4000 turns).

As part of testing Civics I try to see how long I can go before being forced into a War. I use a very basic set of options to do this. The default set of Options is war tilted. Of course all the Combat Options Are for Warfare as is Size Matters, Hide and Seek, and a couple more like them. I also do not use any of the Options Like Tech Diffusion or Win for Losing. They are crutches. Bee line stings does have some use.

I also Never use the Mastery Victory condition as it is all about war. Here lately I have been only using the Space Race Victory Condition (it was broken and I'm not sure if it has been fixed either). So it was basically sandbox mode. You will still have to deal with Barbs and Neanderthals early game unless you turn Barbs completely Off. But diplomacy is manageable and doable.

I'll maybe post the set up Options I usually use. It does have a few minor variations that I allow.

 

[Maltazard]

This is also one of the reasons I don't like playing with too many civs: you get someone asking for free stuff or for you to rescind trade with someone else every turn, rapidly accumulating maluses for basically no real reason. With few civs, well spaced apart, war comes much later, is a lot more meaningful than rolling over two-three city minors, and it's much easier to pick a friend or two and create a solid block. With 20 civs or more it's like being back in middle school, the pettyness and constant backstabbing is infuriating.

Two things Civ IV diplomacy lacks are friendship pacts that do not imply mutual protection and multi civ alliances to consolidate diplomatic blocks. Would be a dream to have those.

 

[raxo2222]

I also Never use the Mastery Victory condition as it is all about war. Here lately I have been only using the Space Race Victory Condition (it was broken and I'm not sure if it has been fixed either). So it was basically sandbox mode. You will still have to deal with Barbs and Neanderthals early game unless you turn Barbs completely Off. But diplomacy is manageable and doable.

Space victory always was working - its spaceship parts are in late Transhuman era now.

Spaceship parts were placed over THREE eras before I revised this.
It requires Apollo project - one of Atomic wonders. This thing was here since Vanilla.
So I guess time length between Apollo and spaceship parts unlock was confusing.

Its Science victory, that needs space stuff, if pepper module is on.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I have yet to reach Transhuman era since pepper2000's mod was added into C2C. And that is even on a Blitz Game Speed.

 

[Somebody613]

I have yet to reach Transhuman era since pepper2000's mod was added into C2C. And that is even on a Blitz Game Speed.

Depends on the size of your map and the number of your civs.
I played a Space Duel map as a Solo Civ, and was literally in space in no time.
And that probably was on a Single City run to begin with (reduces micro-management to almost nil).
It's just that turn time was like 5 seconds, with auto-turn ON, so it literally flew at lightspeed, lol.
Whereas I'm now playing Pit's Earth with all civs, and it drags forever, even discounting the time I have to cool off my PC drive almost each turn for nearly a minute, lest it MAFs.