War, and nothing but war!

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It was a world war now; by 1917 no continent was spared. Any country with any starchier could not afford stand idly by! Japan was in, America was in, Austria was in, Bulgaria was in, Greece was in, Hungary was in, and Russia was going out!

Whatever men hoped or planed the war was here and none could avoid the massacre, it was said that the western front was at the very heart of the war. Trenches dug along the German-French border of 1914 was put to great use, as men were thrown into battle with little chance of succeeding, if any only advancing maybe 2 miles a day, and then would retreat again!

What do you think the Great War served? And was it worth it!
 
I honestly don't know that much about WWI, I've heard stories of trench warfare, but that's about it. To the best of my understanding, Europe was basically itching for a war and needed just the smallest spark to set it off.
 
One of my most liked quotes
"For once in British history, an army was taking the field with incredible efficiency."
 
Waste of time really. Its one war where the world may have been better off with a German victory.
 
Zardnaar said:
Waste of time really. Its one war where the world may have been better off with a German victory.

One must think, if Germany won, would Hitler have been elected and allowed to gain power? But then again, if Germany did win, we would be saying we wish the Allies could have won.
 
Had Germany won WW1 I doubt Hitler would have came to power. Even France may have been better off. Lose some border territory and pay Germany some $$$$ vs 1940-44.
 
Yes and all the Verailles stuff could be avoided. It would be best if Gemany won at 1918 since at that point they could'nt reallyget muct from the Western allies due to exhaustion on both sides.
 
It actually didnt serve a real purpose, however it was unavoidable and the after effect were absoultly necessary. Had the first World War never happened, Hitler would not have come to power, or muesallini(sp). Without these two people World history would have made a turn for the worse. Instead of Germans marching across Europe, it would have been Communist Russian, and the Western Powers would have fallen to Stalin's Iron fist.
 
Colonel said:
It actually didnt serve a real purpose, however it was unavoidable and the after effect were absoultly necessary. Had the first World War never happened, Hitler would not have come to power, or muesallini(sp). Without these two people World history would have made a turn for the worse. Instead of Germans marching across Europe, it would have been Communist Russian, and the Western Powers would have fallen to Stalin's Iron fist.

I think Germany would have been able to prevent Soviet expansion into Western Europe. It would proably have been aided as well. Also you must remeber WWI really helped the Commounist cause so without WWI the caus emay not have been as powerful.
 
If Germany had won WWI, the Soviet Union either a) doesn't come into existence,
because the Germans see no need to send Lenin to Russia, or b) The Germans
annex/set up client states in the Baltic, Belorus, and Ukraine, so the SU is much
weaker that it turned out to be.
 
set up client states in the Baltic, Belorus, and Ukraine, so the SU is much
weaker that it turned out to be.

They already were setting them up (In 1917) as Czarist Russia collapsed, had the Spring Offensive of 1918 succeeded against France. Ukraine, The Baltic States and Finland would have becomed monarchies with German princes as their Monarch's.
 
Well, that's now an interesting "What if-scenario", and one that hasn't been done much, right? Well, there's the question wether Germany could have won, I doubt it, but nevertheless quite interesting.
Besides the East European theatre, there are many other questions:
1)Austria-Hungary: It won, and would have stayed a state, but it would have needed to give the 'Slaws/Serbs' some concessions as they did give to the Hungarians. Austria now would have been the only superpower on the Balcan, totally controlling it, or would they break into a Civil War?
2)Bulgaria (and Greece) would be the only spared Balcan country (cause they were allied with the Central Powers).
3)The Ottoman Empire wouldn't have been defeated, but it would evolve into 'Turkey', the differences inside the Empire was just too big, and Ataturk was afaik a Turk, not an Ottoman! German investions into Turkey would have continued and as France and Britain couldn't take over the Middle East, there is a big question what would happen with Egypt, Jordan, Israel, Syria, Iraq and Arabia. Would Germany and Austria take it? Would they allow the Jews to found Israel, or would the Turks keep some parts, (with German and Austrian help).
4)The colonialist empires: What would Germany want for peace? Colonies?

....

mitsho
 
Well, that's now an interesting "What if-scenario", and one that hasn't been done much, right? Well, there's the question wether Germany could have won, I doubt it, but nevertheless quite interesting.

Greece would have been greatly reduced as Greece was in the Allies, Bulgaria and Ottoman Turkey would have carved it up between themselves.

Northern Serbia would have been taken over by Austria-Hungary while most of the South by Bulgaria (Bulgaria owned that area of land before World War I as it had gained it during the First Balkan War) (I made a short article about it a year ago)

Italy would probably have lost a little area in Northern Italy Alps to Austria, and all of their colonies to Germany.

France would either become a German puppet (VERY UNLIKELY) (If Germany takes Paris during the Succeeding Operation Michael Spring 1918) or (The more likely option) France loses most of their African posessions to Germany and pays Reparations.

Belgium loses Congo, and pays reparations, but Belgium would never have been joined to Germany.

UK loses a few colonies in Africa and maybe Asia, and pays reparations to Germany, Egypt is taken by either Ottoman Turkey or Germany.

Montenegro is Annexed to Austria-Hungary.

Romania was pratically defeated and had already surrendered to the Central power in 1917, so they would pay reparations and give Austria-Hunagry, Bulgaria & Germany controll over the Romanian oil field's.

Japan, well they really don't have much to lose to any of the Central Powers (This is the case also with the United States) so i guess war reparations, and status quo, i guess.

And about the German puppet states in Eastern Europe atleast Finland, Lithuania and Ukraine were going to become German protectorates with German Monarchs. The other states might get German protectorship aswell, but i don't know about if they would become Monarchies or not.
 
both of the wars served a purpose in the great sheme of things; world war 1 to end the vast european empire to bring about the nationa stat (though more then few had utterlyl false concept of them being "different" from thier neighbor, but whatever) and world war 2 to begin a real end to the tide of despots and national-scale racist movements.
 
World War One was important and useful, if only because it served progress by destroying obsolete empires. But you know my opinions.

However, some of you failed to notice that the thread, from the beginning, seems to be (unintentional?) alternate history:
trenches dug along the German-French border of 1914

Most battles raged rather to the west from that. ;)
Hungary was in

As a part of Austria. ;) Admittedly, an equal part, so I'll forgive that...

Anyway, I doubt a German victory would have been better. A victory in 1914 ("The Marne Scenario") would have many bad consequences; the most obvious one, IMHO, is that William will probably let the victory get into his head, he will be indeed an European hegemon, and thus will by default be opposed by Britain; think Napoleonic Wars with a good French fleet. USA is likely to support Britain (not a given, but 90% are that its either a British ally, either a pro-British neutral), as is Russia. Not sure about Japan and China; probably a pro-German China will try to modernize, not fast enough though. WWII would come earlier, and be much longer as Germany will have a decent fleet.

Victory in 1918 (i.e. USA stays out, or something like that - the idea is, as much bloodshed as in OTL)... Do you know what Germans wanted by then? Huge chunks of France, Russia, etc - some directly, some for the puppets, its much worse then Versailles. This means that Germany will be overextended and weakened by war, will slowly grow more opressive and its likely that it will collapse in 1920s/30s to rebellions, ala Yugoslavia.

Another consideration is that, if Austria-Hungary and Ottoman Empire endure, they are unlikely to reform succesfully, and will go down in ethnic strife - again, see Yugoslavia. Turkey is, on one hand, less likely to reform, but, on the other hand, has something of a binding force in Islam - the problem is, there will be a sharp division between pan-Islamic reformers and Turkish nationalists, probably leading to a civil war.
 
A what - if scenario that I find interesting is, what if Germany and Britain entered the War on the same side? And just why did Spain keep out of World War 1 anyway?
 
I don't think britian would have lost her colonies. Britian wouldnt have lost the war, she might of not won and sued for peace but germany was never going to invade.
 
If Britain did lose the war I can see them agreeing to a small reparations to Germany but no lost territory/colonies as Germany can't really do much to them because of the fleet.
 
I don't really see why France or Britain would have been forced to pay reparations ?
France lost the 1890-1891 war against Germany which it started itself, without payments to be made. If Germany would have won, why would they and their allies force those nations to suffer the cost of reconstruction, while the Germans were the war-declaring party. I think it's very important to take into consideration that the Germans had to pay, because they started and lost a huge war, not because of their loss alone. Emperor Karl II was not Hitler-like (although he should never have fired Bismarck like that)

If Germany would have won, I'd think the following would have taken place :
- The transition from empires to nations/states would not have occured and Flanders and the Netherlands would have been annexed probably.
- Austria-Hungary would've ruled eastern Europe, but would have had to face huge civil problems, with nationalistic tensions arising. The Czechs and Serbs would probably have started another war for independence, albeit a civil war.
- The Ottoman Empire wouldn't have collapsed, and thereby the Middle East would've stayed Ottoman (although Ataturk would still've transformed it into Turkey
- Germany would've acquired a lot of the former French/British colonies, but the African/Asian fight for independance would probably have started a few decades earlier as the Germans could never control it all.
- The Soviet Union wouldn't have had it's rising influence in Europe
- America wouldn't have become the huge superpower probably, as there'd be no WW 2 to increase it's sphere of influence in.
- France and the UK and some other nations would regain their independance, under a Germanic sphere of influence, but without annexation. A new war would probably have been declared though by the losing allies, there's no telling in what position the US would be (probably at the sidelines)
 
I don't think Communism would have ended with Lenin not going back to Russia. Regardless of if Germany wanted Russia out of the war or not, I think Communism in Russia would still have progressed anyway.

Anyway, a side issue - Marxism in Europe existed outside of Lenin and Russia. I think that even if Germany won the Great War, some form of regime would rise up. For example, the Spartakists (Think that's how it's spelt...) in Germany under Weimar - would they have been put down just as much as if they were under the Kaiser?

There's too many 'What If' scenario's.
 
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