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War... good for... absolutly nothing...ugh!

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by yoshi74, Nov 8, 2005.

  1. Venger

    Venger Give it a tumble, sport

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2002
    Messages:
    783
    Cities that are captured should retain at least the first expansion - should it have been achieved - but likely not much more, if only because of the culture winning option being overrun by simply conquering culture, not cultivating it.

    That said, when Paris fell, it did not "lose all it's culture". Ancient cities changed rulers CONSTANTLY. They didn't just shrivel up and die. The point of conquering the cities wasn't to strangle them and watch them wither, it was to exploit their great productivity and wealth - this is poorly modeled under the current map/border/culture system.

    Venger
     
  2. XF Clohvn

    XF Clohvn Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2002
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    True, but theres also no mechanic in place to... beat them into submission so to speak.
     
  3. Legionarius

    Legionarius Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2005
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    What XML file did you edit to have all 18 civilizations in one map?
     
  4. WuphonsReach

    WuphonsReach Prince

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2005
    Messages:
    426
    Probably didn't edit any at all.

    Single Player -> Custom Game

    Then set it to give you 18 civs on whatever map you want. Since I'm just learning, I play Huge Terra map with only 3-5 AI civs and my difficulty is only Chieftan or Warlord. Plus, I can turn off various victory conditions so that I don't arbitrarily run out of time while prosecuting an offsensive.
     
  5. Legionarius

    Legionarius Chieftain

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    Oct 12, 2005
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    Sure? I thought 12 was the default max.
     
  6. King_Nothing

    King_Nothing Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2005
    Messages:
    14
    Play a custom game and turn off the option for cities to flip back right after a conquest. Just remember that it goes against ur cities as well. I found that this atleast slows the culture plague from getting too out of hand.
     
  7. Wlauzon

    Wlauzon Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    573
    Trust me, it is there. And it can get very bad in a long war. In one case where I refused to ever accept peace with one civ, it got to the point where it was taking me 20-30 turns to research a tech that would normally be 6 or so.
     
  8. Thrag

    Thrag Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2005
    Messages:
    55
    Thrag:
    Ah, I see the problem, you have forgotten that this is a game

    Venger:
    "I have? I don't recall a lapse in that knowledge. I'm sure your extensive board experience, having joined us now for at least 100 hours, has given you insight into such matters those of us who have been playing Civilization and discussing it here for three plus years lack. "

    Get a thicker skin if you get all worked up over a sarcastic "it's a game not reality" comment. Harping on the fact that I joined the forum recently and you have been here a long time isn't much of a point, it's a lame cop out. If you'd like to discuss the point like an adult without comments like "what are you twelve" let me know. Why on earth do people feel the need to get all pissy and defensive about their opinion of a computer game?
     
  9. Thrag

    Thrag Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2005
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    There's only one "blank" slot at the bottom, but if you add a player another blank slot shows up.
     
  10. Thrag

    Thrag Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2005
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    55
    "True, but theres also no mechanic in place to... beat them into submission so to speak."

    True, it would be nice if there were something other than just a few turns of unrest to model the change of culture after conquest. Perhaps after unrest is over, there is another time period where the original culture weakens in adjacent squares (sort of a revolution period for the squares next to a captured city where the enemy culture is high).
     
  11. Thrag

    Thrag Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2005
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    "Please offer us a detailed history of major land campaigns that started with armies bypassing regional cities in order to attain an unsupported position far behind enemy lines... thanks Custer, we'll take it from here..."

    Though I tried I just couldn't let this one go. You may have heard of a tiny little conflict called WWII. Back in WWII the Germans captured Paris after bypassing most of the French defenses, compelling their surrender. That's probably the most glaring obvious example to anyone with a sliver of knowledge of military history (who isn't throwing a silly defensive tantrum causing them to forget basic stuff of course). There are plenty of other examples through history of going for the jugular bypassing smaller objectives on the way. You can apologize for your simultaneous arrogance and ignorance any time now.
     
  12. panzooka

    panzooka Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2005
    Messages:
    433
    try get police state
     
  13. Ravinhood

    Ravinhood Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Messages:
    180
    The WORLDINFO XML file is where you can setup the "default" number of civs for each type map you plan on playing. Up to 18.

    The other way to do it is like someone else suggested if you scoll down to the bottom of the player selection lists you will see a blank box that you can open and set it to AI, then another blank box will open and you do the same and it will continue until you open all 18 civs.

    Oh you can also set map sizes for these different maps as well. All of the vanilla maps are very very very small.
     
  14. beefsteak

    beefsteak Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    6
    You've got the culture bomb, you have the option to raze cities, you have civics and techs against war weariness. There are tons of ways to control happiness ontop of that.

    War good for nothing is one of the funniest complaints I've ever seen about Civ4.
     
  15. Venger

    Venger Give it a tumble, sport

    Joined:
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    783
    Idiot, they took freaking BELGIUM and THE NETHERLANDS on the way to Paris, clown. What they bypassed was the fortified Maginot line - they didn't paradrop into Paris, fool. They took the ONLY route into France that made sense, THROUGH Belgium, the route the French begged them to take by not fortifying it. They didn't bypass Belgium or the Netherlands, they TOOK THEM. Do you get this? They created a NATURAL ROUTE OF SUPPLY AND CONTROL TO THE FRONT. Do you get this?

    Clown. Go back to Risk.

    Venger
     
  16. Thrag

    Thrag Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Wow, more ranting and personal attacks. Yeah, that will make you look like you know what you're talking about. Why bother to reply if you are only going to make a fool of yourself.

    Since you seem to have failed to comprehend what I actually wrote I'll remind you that my original point is about bypassing minor cities in order to capture the capital or other politically (or culturally in civ4 terms) important cities, not armies simply pusing far past their supply lines for no apparent reason. Pushing past minor cities to get to the major ones has happened in many wars, including the completely valid example of WWII (or do you contend that they captured every single french city between germany and Paris on the way there). The Germans bypassed the maginot line, but they also bypassed pockets of resistance on the road to Paris. They didn't get bogged down in every border town. Getting back to the point of the thread, the parallel here is not to take only the minor border cities that will not be sustainable and instead take the big culture cities (perhaps even first). There is nothing unrealistic or ahistorical about this concept.

    Let's review your lame little personal attack. You make a "go back to risk" crack, yet I'm the one giving useful suggestions about how to play the actual game and create effective strategies. You're complaining about the game mechanics because you don't like how they work. If I were to post in your style I'd have to say the reason for your complaint is that you just suck at the game, don't know what you are doing, and should go back to playing checkers by yourself so you can change the rules when you don't like their outcome. Is that more to your liking?

    Now, are you done showing the forum how much of a defensive and childish you can be, or do you need to demonstrate your immaturity further? Really dude, grow a skin. One little sarcastic comment and you lose it and throw a tantrum? How do you deal with real life?
     
  17. Thrag

    Thrag Chieftain

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    Most of these compaints really should not be complaints but questions about how the game works. People are going to be frustrated when things don't work as they expect, and that's natural of course. But instead of statements like "war is not a feasable strategy" there should be questions like "my current strategy isn't working, how can I better wage war?". I'm glad I never got into Civ3 (seemed like such a let down after SMAC) since when I started civ 4 I had very few pre-conceived notions based on a lot of civ3 play.
     
  18. Dida

    Dida YHWH

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    :goodjob: What is really funny is that some people always assume they are smarter than others. They also assume that others complain because they don't know how the system works. Of course, I bet we need to have your kind of IQ to play this game effectively. :goodjob:
     
  19. Venger

    Venger Give it a tumble, sport

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    Jeez... look, when the Nazi's captured Belgium, it didn't shrivel and die because of Paris' culture boundary. There is a difference between "bypass a pocket of resistance" and "charge to the capital with enemy production and troop concentrations to our rear".

    In addition, were you to actually TAKE the capital in the original posters scenario, you'd STILL be left with a stub, because the culture of their other cities extends well into those areas as well - so no, advice to "get the culture capital first" is both goofy in concept as well as leaving you no better off in result. The only choice given is to take ALL of the land, leaving a patchwork of starving cities who cannot work adjacent tiles, which is STILL STUPID. The Nazi's weren't forbidden from working tiles adjacent to Paris because they hadn't established enough freaking culture points.

    If you feel like you've been unfairly attacked, you should not use words like "crap" when responding to posters - follow your own advice about growing a skin, you knucklehead.

    Venger
     
  20. MeteorPunch

    MeteorPunch #WINNING Supporter

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    I know how the game works, I've played it ~60 hours already and it would take a really long post to explain all the details of why all out war has become a much less viable option. If you or anyone else does not have the common sense or experience to see this plainly, then it is not worth my time to explain it for you.
     

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