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War happines works!

Discussion in 'Civ3 Strategy Articles' started by I. Larkin, Oct 9, 2007.

  1. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Chieftain

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    War Happiness work!!
    It is opposite to War Weariness that discribed in
    http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3/strategy/war_weariness.php


    My findings are that you will not get happiness when AI declare due to their MA or MPP.
    It is rounded down first and than added from each “happy war”.
    Thus, if you have 7 citizens and are getting happiness from two declarations, you will get 2 happy faces. (7 * .25 rounded down = 1, * 2)
    If you have 8 citizens and are getting happiness from two declarations, you will get 4 happy faces. (8 * .25 rounded down = 2, * 2)

    This effect of WH is permanent and if after long peace you declare war again war happiness will return. Additional benefit is that Human will get rid of gpt payment deal and reputation will be preserved.

    Now the question is how to make happy war?
    1) Do not cave to demands.
    2) Ask “Remove or Declare.” This trick may help: if AI goes somewhere else through your land, surround (block) their troops and tell them “Remove or Declare.” Normally, the second or third demand will work.
    3) Make an agreement (Military Alliance (MA), for instance) that include “peace treaty”. When AI break Alliance they automatically declare war and WH
    Drawback of 1): Nobody knows when AI will ask for tribute. It may happen in sudden and you may “not ready for war”. And if you are “ready” AI will not declare.
    Drawback of 2): The same as 1): Who knows when AI will come? And if they come “after you” and declare you will face a real war and WW will come soon.
    Mode 3) is much better, because WH may come via “phony war” that does not causes WW. To make it work faster better to have many MAs. Probability that one out of many will be broken is higher, than just one MA.
    Ideal situation for that was at GOTM 70 (Spain) where bunch of AIs sit on remote continent and MA with half of AIs against another half causes mutual WH very soon.
    If, for some reason AI stays at MA(s) 20 turns it is essential to renegotiate peace treaty deal when it expire. Otherwise AI popup IBT and will offer “plain” peace treaty without any add-ons. At “pop-up mode” it is impossible to make any deal. Rejection of peace “as it is” will cause a war without WH and reputation will trash. Obviously 3) also does not guaranty WH. Additional drawbacks of 3) might be also considered.
    (i) If you bring AI at “too many wars” and can’t help him and AI will be killed while in treaty your reputation will gone.
    (ii) If you kill your “common enemy” you come to the situation of war with your former friend without his declaration. This war will not cause WH and your reputation also gone. This bug (feature (?)) specific for MA + peace deal only. Other MA + trade deals will not trash reputation if you kill common enemy.
    (iii) It is interesting to test how trade + peace treaty works. Obviously if you break trade route reputation gone and no WH will appear. More difficult question what if it happen IBT? I mean third party break trade route IBT. Also, IF to brake MA IBT (via big picture)? It will trash MA reputation but will it cause WH?
    Certainly it is open area to research.
    Acknowledgements to Automated Teller for polishing English.
    Automated Teller suggestions for happy wars:
    My memory says that 4) will not generate WH, but I may be wrong.
     
  2. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

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    I am currently playing a game where an enemy (who I declared on) signed on an ally against me and I definitely got happiness from it.

    I don't know about MPP's, though.
     
  3. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Chieftain

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    Could it be that you had with that AI WH before? I GOTM I did not had more WH when AI declare me, and them bring more AI via MA. But if you declare and AI make MA after dont know.
     
  4. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

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    Quite possibly, yes.
     
  5. RickFGS

    RickFGS Chieftain

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    Nice article, keep it up.
     
  6. Chamnix

    Chamnix Chasing Time

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    I had war happiness from someone, and eventually I accumulated enough war weariness points that the happiness ended. Is there some minimum length of time we need to be at peace before I can goad him into declaring again and getting the war happiness back? Or will it never come back?
     
  7. Lord Emsworth

    Lord Emsworth Chieftain

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    Actually it works like a charm. As long as you are the importer of luxes/resources the other side will receive the rep-hit and you the WH. If you are the exporter it is the other way 'round.

    It doesn't matter if the trade route is pillaged or cut on your turn, or IBT. I had that happen.

    However there are also strange cases of "ghost deals", where the resource/lux does NOT change hand, the whole deal stays "active" though. But that mainly has to do with MA + resource/lux, where the MA and the resulting DoW cuts the trade route. What would happen if it was Peace + MA + resource/lux, I don't know.
     
  8. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Chieftain

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    Don't know. Most plobaly if you get declare them back -30 points will add (or 30 points substract from your WW). Will it be less then zero or not will determine WH.
     
  9. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Chieftain

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    I see.
    Really this method is simpler to generate WH (To cut trade route). In parallel you may get all Cash, thechs etc. for free. Is it baned already at HoF and XOTM?

    Indeed MA sort of goast deal. It stay active even if war declred, I mean your MA rep does not hit if you continue WAR due to MA. Obviously you can't see MA when in war with your Alies, but most probably "invisible goast deal" still is somwhere.
     
  10. Lord Emsworth

    Lord Emsworth Chieftain

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    In the XOTMs this is banned, I believe. In the HoF it is not - I asked. ;)

    But it is not necessarily easier to use the trade route cuts to generate WH. Most of the time you have to have a clean rep. And you cannot use it for the first 20 binding turns after signing a real peace treaty - you have to wait (and watch the renegotiations :mad:). If you use Peace + MAs, you can do that right away during real peace negotioations, but on the other hand it is fairly unpredictable when and if at all the AIs will break the treaties.


    Hmm, I am not sure I explained well enough what I meant with ghost deals. Assume you have a trade route with Civ A that runs through the territory of Civ M. Now assume you are at war with Civ M while Civ A is not. Obviously, as long as one of you is still at peace with the civ in the middle (Civ M :D) trades are possible. Now if you make a MA against Civ M + lux deal with Civ A, you will get a very odd and strange case of a deal that is listed under active deals, but where no lux actually changes hands. The MA is active though. And if gpt were involved (like this: MA + lux + gpt) that would change hands.
     
  11. NickyH

    NickyH Bismarck with lipstick…

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    Another way to go fishing for war happiness, that I sometimes use, is to keep a decent amount of gold and troops that I can upgrade. Veteran warriors are a good option. This way you may appear weak and tempt the AI to attack, and then upgrade to swordsman or medieval medieval infantry. This method is totally unpredictable, of course. :mischief:
     
  12. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Chieftain

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    I did a test and it worked, as I expected.I also test have here MA+Peace+Res deal, that broken due to "disconnect". Result is the same, but I'd pay more for the Iron that I do not recive. reputation remained clean. Note that it is still invisible "goast deal" remain. As in example" I am at war with China, but pay to them gpt for lasting MA.

    I can't see this deal, as they don't want to talk, but Civ assist shows this deal. So, I think theoretically possible to get gpt from AI while at war.

    Now question to civ_steve, is this trick allowed for XOTM? Disconnect occured "automatically", I did not pillage road or sell harbor.
     

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  13. Lord Emsworth

    Lord Emsworth Chieftain

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    Here is another question. What if your MA partner or even a 4th party kills your MA target? Say you make Peace with Rome + Alliance against America, and then the Romans go and kill off America? What if the Persians do it?
     
  14. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Chieftain

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    I had it once and it causes War with partner, reputation also gone but I could not trace WH because was too many wars.
     
  15. lissenber

    lissenber Chieftain

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    I usually just use close city placement and due to the small ammount of area i can build in,my cities usually have like 3 or 4 citizen with some tech milking and they never seem to rebel even though im in war from 3000 bc to the end of the game.This seems to work perfectly for deity.
     

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