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War Happyness Caps at 100%

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by Lord Emsworth, May 9, 2008.

  1. Lord Emsworth

    Lord Emsworth Emperor

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    For an excellent explanation of War Weariness/Happyness see:
    http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3/strategy/war_weariness.php

    But very roughly, if one enemy declares war on you you will get 25% of war happyness (or, sometimes called inverse war weariness). That means, for each citizen in any one of your cities you will get 1/4 of a happy face, rounded down to the next integer. Or stated more clearly if you have a size 3 town you will get 3/4 of a happy face rounded down to 0. In a size 4 town you will get exactly one happy face. Etc., until at size 12 you will reap 3 happy faces from one source of war happyness.

    Now, if you have two sources of WH you will get two times 25%. That means that in a size three town you will get two times 3/4 of a happy face rounded down to 0 as opposed to 6/4 of a happy face rounded down to 1. :( . In a size 4 though you will get two full happy faces for two sources of WH. Etc pp.



    On to the main point of this post, namely that max. WW that you can get is 4 times 25%, i.e. 100% even if you have 5 (or more) sources of WW. Attached to the next post is a save of a game (C3 1.29f [civ3], not C3C) where I am at war with five different civs:

    Spoiler :


    I made them all DoW me sometime during the course of this game with the help of some quite exploitive techniques, so they all should be giving me WH - unless the WH has worn off of course.

    The happyness situation in a randomly chosen size 12 town (in this case Persepolis) after selling the Marketplace looks like this:
    Spoiler :


    In order to achieve such a situation you would need 21 happy/content faces. What I have though are:
    1 content face from the level (Deity)
    8 happy faces from the luxes

    Which means that 21 - 1 - 8 = 12 happy/content faces have to come from different sources. That different source in this game here is War Happyness.

    But 12 happy faces from WH is only consistent with four sources of WH and not five, so am I really getting WH from five different sources?

    To confirm this I selectively made peace with individual civs. First I sign peace with the Russians. But nothing really happens, as Persepolis still has 10 happy, 1 content, and 1 unhappy people - same as in the screen shot.

    I make peace with the English also. (This is not really necessary, but I did anyway.) After doing so the happyness in Persepolis drops down to 9 happy, and 3 unhappy people:
    Spoiler :

    So, yes, the English really are/were giving me WH. As are/were the three other civs, Japan, Egypt and China.

    Remains to be seen if the Russians are really giving me WW, or if it has worn off already. I reload the save, sell the market once more and then sign peace with the English, a known source for WH.

    Persepolis looks the same as before:
    10 happy, 1 content, and 1 unhappy people, exactly as in the first screen shot. That means, apart from the English, the Japanes, the Egyptians, the Chinese there must be another sourse of WH in the original save: the Russians.

    Conclusion: Five sources of WH give you the same amount of happyness as four. Or, in other words War Happyness caps at 100%.


    .
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Lord Emsworth

    Lord Emsworth Emperor

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    And here is the save. (I couldn't figure out how to make more than three attachments, so I made a separate post)
     

    Attached Files:

  3. anaxagoras

    anaxagoras King

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    Thanks for the instruction, M'Lord. I don't know how often I will be declared on by five or more Civs at a time, but this is still a great post if only for the way multiples are counted. Well done! :beer:
     
  4. rysingsun

    rysingsun King

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    on archi games it is often good strategy to allow most of your opponents to declare and stay at war with you. it can make your cities quite content in spite of lack of luxuries even with the slider at zero.

    but i myself have been confused about why i am not getting as much happiness as expected. this analysis explains it well :goodjob:

    now for step two of the analysis. If you are at war with six rivals and you get war weariness from one of them, lets say at +25 percent, then can you offset that with the war happiness of five others and still achieve -100 percent net?
     
  5. Lord Emsworth

    Lord Emsworth Emperor

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    :dunno: I just have to confess that I do not have the slightest clue ATM.
     
  6. Lord Emsworth

    Lord Emsworth Emperor

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    I don't know where else to post this, so I decided to bump my own thread.

    During a recent game, I figured out that a fifth and a sixth source of War Happyness do give you some benefit, even though it seems rather small. The main point remains the same though, you will never receive more happy faces from WH than your city has population, i.e. it will never be more than 100%.

    However, there is a small difference and that holds exclusively for the intermediate city sizes, in other words those that are not divisible by four. For an example take a city at size 11.

    Normally, for such a city and 4 sources of WH you will get 4*(11*0.25rnddwn) = 8 happy faces and you lose quite a lot to the rounding.

    Now if you have 5 sources of WH the situation will look different, instead of 8 happy faces you now all of a sudden get 10 happy faces. It could be expressed in math like this: 5*(11*0.25rnddwn) = 10

    Even better yet, with 6 sources of WH your city gets full 11 faces.

    A proper formula will probaly look something like this:

    HF = min
    { CZ
    { WH*(CZ*0.25rnddwn)

    HF: the number of happy faces you receive
    CZ: city size
    WH: number of sources of War Happyness

    It is a bit tricky to put this into some sort of formula, especially in type. But roughly, the min means "pick whichever is smaller." And more to the point here, it means pick whichever is smaller; either the number of citizens OR WH*(CZ*0.25rnddwn).

    Enough with that. Here are the number of happy faces (in brackets) to expect for different city sizes and for differnt numbers of War Happyness.

    4 sources:
    1(0), 2(0), 3(0), 4(4),
    5(4), 6(4), 7(4), 8(8),
    9(8), 10(8), 11(8), 12(12),
    13(12), 14(12), 15(12), 16(16)
    ...

    5 sources:
    1(0), 2(0), 3(0), 4(4),
    5(5), 6(5), 7(5), 8(8),
    9(9), 10(10), 11(10), 12(12),
    13(13), 14(14), 15(15), 16(16)
    ...

    6 sources:
    1(0), 2(0), 3(0), 4(4),
    5(5), 6(6), 7(6), 8(8),
    9(9), 10(10), 11(11), 12(12),
    13(13), 14(14), 15(15), 16(16)
    ...


    (Maybe somebody can profit from this stuff, but mainly it is probably only marginally relevant for a Hist game for the HoF.)

    ETA: Needed to correct some numbers.
     
  7. rysingsun

    rysingsun King

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    so this means to me that the cap is not 4 war-happinesses per se, but rather, a cap of one happiness per citizen. I wonder if that cap is applied after all other happiness modifiers: if there were some whipping or draft unhappiness for example.
     
  8. Lord Emsworth

    Lord Emsworth Emperor

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    Exactly.

    They are all applied independently, I think, and work pretty much like the rest of the happy and content faces. Only that with things causing unhappyness you get some sort of 'unhappy' faces which are are not shown or displayed anywhere, though.

    For example, I have one city (my capital) in my current game where I have got one Russian citizen* complaining about the war against his mother country; otherwise there are 8 luxes but no market (yet), 1 content face from the level, 2 content from JS Bachs and 12 happy faces from WH. In practice this means that 11 people are happy and the 12th is unhappy which goes well with thinking of if as follows:
    3x :) + 20x :lol: + 1x :(



    *Using a foreign settler was simply the fasted and best way to settle the far off location.
     
  9. del62

    del62 Deity

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    Good work Lord Emsworth

    I assume this in PTW, (from your russian settler and capital comment), does this apply exactly the same in C3C
     
  10. Lord Emsworth

    Lord Emsworth Emperor

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    It is Vanilla and I suppose it is the same. I have not seen any differences. But very good observation about the remote palace. :p
     

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