[RD] War in Gaza News: Pas de Deux

[Gorbles]

It's impressive how you can (rightly) blame people for being simplistic when they ignore all the events which led to the fight against Israel by Palestinians, yet can just turn around and do the exact same things when it's convenient for you.
But hey, as someone you closely know already said, "it's okay when my side does it".

I'm sorry, are you saying Lexi is wrong? Ajidica's source at the bottom of the last page is clear that Israel were looking for pretext. They wanted it.

Now, you can argue about the giving of the pretext, and so on, but that would require you actually discuss the topic / tangent (that you started, by asking the question), instead of finger wagging select posters for "hypocrisy" (while ignoring all other instances of it).

 

[Birdjaguar]

Moderator Action: "finger wagging" at posters will get everyone in trouble. It is kinda like name calling.

 

[Akka]

I'm sorry, are you saying Lexi is wrong?

Yes. Which is blatantly obvious after even the most cursory look at what actually happened in Lebanon. I'd advise you to reread his first post on the subject and then do such cursory reading.

Ajidica's source at the bottom of the last page is clear that Israel were looking for pretext. They wanted it.

Yeah, I really wonder what happened during the years before Israel wanted to invade, and what was the state of Lebanon by then.
Because, you know :

Now, you can argue about the giving of the pretext, and so on, but that would require you actually discuss the topic / tangent (that you started, by asking the question)

No, the tangent was Lex acting all outraged about the idea that Hezbollah was to blame for wrecking Lebanon, while claiming it was all Israel doing.
(not that Israel was innocent in the whole Lebanon mess, like so many participants in the whole Middle-East, and the PLO was still by far the most responsible)

 

[Gorbles]

No, the tangent was Lex acting all outraged about the idea that Hezbollah was to blame for wrecking Lebanon, while claiming it was all Israel doing.

It was Israel that invaded on the first excuse they had. The assassination was the trigger. We agree?

So do we also agree, to get back to current news, that Iran now has cause to invade Israel? Rightfully, presumably. As rightful as Israel apparently was in the historic invasion we're discussing. As a senior figure was murdered - assassinated - on Iranian soil recently. Valid pretext for invasion: yes or no?

(edited for accuracy and to avoid further tangents)

 

[Ordnael]

You are a murderous bloodthirsty sicko

Wow!
Are these kind of personal attacks/insults allowed CFC now?

 

[Senethro]

Wow!
Are these kind of personal attacks/insults allowed CFC now?

More a statement of fact given the context.

 

[Akka]

It was Israel that invaded on the first excuse they had. The assassination was the trigger. We agree?

So do we also agree, to get back to current news, that Iran now has cause to invade Israel? Rightfully, presumably. As rightful as Israel apparently was in the historic invasion we're discussing. As a senior figure was murdered - assassinated - on Iranian soil recently. Valid pretext for invasion: yes or no?

(edited for accuracy and to avoid further tangents)

If you're going to ignore the substance of what is said just to twist it into another display of bad faith, that'll be without me. Have fun.

 

[Gorbles]

If you're going to ignore the substance of what is said just to twist it into another display of bad faith, that'll be without me. Have fun.

This isn't bad faith at all, I'm asking r.e. consistency of what constitutes valid pretext (I was also trying to bring it back to current news). This is going to likely be more and more important as Israel continues to ignore international law.

 

[Senethro]

If you're going to ignore the substance of what is said just to twist it into another display of bad faith, that'll be without me. Have fun.

You didn't actually say anything at all. Look at this:

Yes. Which is blatantly obvious after even the most cursory look at what actually happened in Lebanon. I'd advise you to reread his first post on the subject and then do such cursory reading.

Yeah, I really wonder what happened during the years before Israel wanted to invade, and what was the state of Lebanon by then.
Because, you know :

No, the tangent was Lex acting all outraged about the idea that Hezbollah was to blame for wrecking Lebanon, while claiming it was all Israel doing.
(not that Israel was innocent in the whole Lebanon mess, like so many participants in the whole Middle-East, and the PLO was still by far the most responsible)

First line is dodging having to say anything at all, claiming its obvious and to go do your own reading.

Second is just sarcasm, again not actually saying anything and owning it.

Third is just admitting its personal.

Soooooo why are you feeling like you've got a high horse here?

 

[Klaus Hergersheimer]

That is not true, assuming by "one of the most stable Middle East countries" you mean Lebanon. Lebanon has never been particularly stable.
See, for example:

The very delicate sectarian and ethnic balancing act needed for independence in 1943:

National Pact - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The American intervention in 1958:

1958 Lebanon crisis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The influx of PLO fighters into Lebanon following Black September:

Black September - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Israeli raids into Lebanon in the early 1970s:

1973 Israeli raid in Lebanon - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Lebanese Civil War, starting in 1975:

Lebanese Civil War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Syrian invasion of Lebanon starting in 1976:

Syrian occupation of Lebanon - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The first Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1978:

1978 South Lebanon conflict - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Brutal fighting between co-religionists to consolidate power and influence:

Safra massacre - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The deployment of the MNF to Lebanon in 1982:

Multinational Force in Lebanon - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The second Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1982, which completely screwed the pooch:

1982 Lebanon War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

When Hezbollah emerged as a coherent group, but most historians and politicians put it sometime between 1982 and 1985; emerging as a response to the Israeli invasion and ensuing collapse of the Lebanese government.

Hezbollah - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So no, Lebanon has never been what one could call a particularly stable country, except maybe for about a decade in the 1960s.

I don't know about Lebanon at large, but Beirut was a sort-of jet-set touristy destination in the '60s. I believe it was a lot of oil business types from the Persian Gulf who vacationed there after WW2 ended but don't quote me.

 

[Klaus Hergersheimer]

I do kind of object to the death of Hezbollah leaders insofar as I'm firmly on the side of the resistance and hope to see Israel defeated, but killing Nasrallah, in and of itself, is at least within the bounds of armed conflict. Killing him plus a few hundred people who were just in the wrong place at the wrong time is just Nazi horsehocky, and praising it is sick

Hezbollah is certainly NOT a resistance group, at least on an administrative level; they pledge loyalty to the Iranian Ayatollah. (it is literally in their charter).

 

[banzay13]

Another One Bites the Dust

 

[REDY]

In my understanding Lebanon was defeated by Hezbollah and is now just pretending to be a country?

 

[r16]

lebanon is a country long defended by Hizbullah .

 

[REDY]

By killing lebanonese prime ministers, murdering random civilians in foreign countries or bombing Israeli people?

 

[r16]

you might really fail to understand this but you are somewhat coming out as some White who seeks recompense for the failure to win some Crusade somewhere else .

 

[Gorbles]

By killing lebanonese prime ministers, murdering random civilians in foreign countries or bombing Israeli people?

I have really bad news for you r.e. Israel's activities in this regard.

 

[REDY]

I have really bad news for you r.e. Israel's activities in this regard.

If I would accomodate terrorists who murdered my prime minister, slaughtered innocent civilians of random countries and bombing neigbour I would expect bad news. But I am just white who never achieved to crusade someone..

 

[innonimatu]

If I would accomodate terrorists who murdered my prime minister, slaughtered innocent civilians of random countries and bombing neigbour I would expect bad news. But I am just white who never achieved to crusade someone..

No. You are just someone feeding on propaganda. Of a decaying empire, no less. Bad situation.

The israelis want to steal Lebannon's land, as they stole Palestine's. They are very open about that. Hezbollah they hate because it has been an effective resistance against that plan.

The multiple provocations and escalation by Israel's government recently seem designed to draw the US into a big regional war. That is not a given due to the current weakness of the US military. They simply cannot sustain a big Middle East war even if they wanted to. Hence they don't, the military officers who can count stocks and check capabilities doesn't. What the politica leaderhorsehocky, or its abcense, will do is another matter.

 

[Kyriakos]

you might really fail to understand this but you are somewhat coming out as some White who seeks recompense for the failure to win some Crusade somewhere else .

Varna 2030

Israel can't be left to bomb every country around it, stating it is just defending itself. That's a way that others can emulate=>much bigger war.
On other news, Israel is about to invade Lebanon too. Wasn't Sharon responsible of a couple of massacres there when he first rose to prominence?
A role model for Netanyahou and another of the people responsible for no end to war in the region.