[RD] War in Gaza News: Pas de Deux

Voidwalkin said:
Seen this argument presented many times by many people. Don't get it.

Israel will be fine. This argument seems to rest on "people don't like Israel and therefore they will fail", or something. Been said for almost 100 years, they're still there.

Seems a pretty common opinion though. Pretty dangerous one, too. Sinwar seemed amongst those that thought just push and it'll collapse, some grand coalition forming against it, its allies in the West casting it aside. It is not so.
Click to expand...

No. The argument is bases on what is visibly going on.

Israel is the zionist state. Its founding principle and raision d'être, because it never changed from it, is to be the safe space for jews. If that changes they may be a polity called Israel for a while more still, but the national project will have failed. Then the zionists might as well have admitted defeat and let the politty move to the "single state solution" and have had peace decades ago.

The zionists won a few wars and sold themselves as local agents to the biggest empire in the world as servants. They then though they could have it all, greater Israel, and in their hubris annexed the west bank and Gaza, and attempted the annexation of southern Lebannon. This escalation, which made sure that Israel was locked in permanent hostility with the broader regions, would only work so long as Israel remained the sole regional power, the big bully everyone feared or, if war happened, that could defeat any adversary quickly. Hostility but no war or only brief and victorious wars, it looked safe enough.

But military occupation over hostile populations failed in the early 1990s, and that failure was confirmed in 2006. Rabin was no peace-loving dove, he moved towards an attempt and peace because he say disaster coming otherwise. Sharon, the war criminal, no one would think a dove. But he backed off Lebannon and partially disengaged from Gaza. He too could see the failure of the project coming, and would (as Rabin) save a smaller zionist state if he could. Then he went into a coma and the current idiot, whom Sharon has shoved aside as a dangerous fool, got back on the driver's seat with the (now obvious) insanity of Greater Israel as an aim. God, it appears (if you believe one), was not with Israel.

The current crazy PM's actions since have made sure that peace is now impossible. Too much bad blood. And that Israel is locked into a never-ending attritional war, not just within (where it attemps, without achieving, a genocide as a final solution on the internal front) but with the whole region. Northern Israel is now off-limits, the settlers there evacuated south. The missile exchanges with Iran made it clear to everyone in the region that Israel cannot defend itself against missiles, there is now a "balance of devastation" in the event of a big war. That makes a big, decisive war either impossible or suicidal. But that was the kind of war Israel has relied on to be the regional hegemon, the only kind it know how to win. The kind of war that had scared off continued armed resistance against its occupation and attacks against its neighbours. Prevented from escalating to a decisive war (that would require using nukes anyway), it means the attritional war will continue and continue. That means the zionist project, the safe space for jews, has failed. The state ideology has ailed. And there is nothing to replace it with because the current crazy PM burnt all bridges to peace.

The regional resistance against Israel is winning the war as it goes now. Despite the human cost. If the war continues long enough Israel collapses. It can be propped up only by US transfers of weapons and financial support and imports of every kind as Israel's economy falters. But that means giving up on the status of ally and becoming a mere military outpost, to be used or evacuated according to the needs of the empire it is part of. And the empire is wakening. The US's east of Suez moment is coming, no one thinks otherwise: look at the diplomatic raligments of so many countries in the region. At any rate Israel the state, Israel the safe home for jews, will be longer worth fighting for because it is no longer. Israelis will eveacuate, or perforce adapt to a different political reality. The writing, as the scriptures said, is on the wall.

The current war is the more evil, the more unjust, as is is a lost war for Israel. Pure waste.
 
So... attacked Press and UN etc in Lebanon, now going to level Baalbek gaza style.

If it was elsewhere US would put a no fly zone. Instead they continue to supply weapons.
 

Deadly Israeli strike targeted 'spotter' on Beit Lahia building's roof, official says​

An Israeli military official has told the BBC that it carried out a deadly strike on a five-storey residential building in Beit Lahia in northern Gaza on Tuesday in response to seeing a “spotter” on the roof with binoculars observing Israeli forces.
Gaza’s Hamas-run health ministry said more than 90 Palestinians, including 25 children, were killed or missing beneath the rubble of the building, which collapsed as a result of the strike.
The military official said it was not a planned strike and troops did not know the building was being used as a shelter for displaced people.
They also said there were discrepancies between the number of casualties reported and what the military had observed.

The strike provoked a strong response from Israel's closest ally, the US, which described it as a “horrifying incident with a horrifying result” and demanded an explanation.
On Wednesday, after the military official had spoken to reporters, US state department spokesman Matthew Miller said Israel was “not doing enough to get us the answers that we have requested”.
"They have said to us what they had said publicly, which is they're investigating the matter," he added.
Israel does not allow the BBC and other international media into Gaza to report independently, making it difficult to verify facts on the ground, so we rely on information from video footage and witness testimonies.
Videos posted on social media a few hours after the strike showed multiple bodies wrapped in blankets and people collecting body parts at the scene of the strike.
Umm Malik Abu Nasr later told BBC Arabic’s Gaza Today programme on Tuesday that the strike destroyed her family’s home and that she was among the survivors pulled from the rubble.
“At around 00:30 or 01:00, the Awda family house next to us was bombed,” she said. “We rushed to help and host them but their daughter [died] in our home.”
“At 04:00 the multi-storey house of the Abu Nasr family collapsed on top of us. They [Israel forces] bombed the house, which was housing about 300 displaced people who had fled their homes. These people sought to take refuge in our houses. We hosted them because they were just civilians and had nothing to do with resistance [Palestinian armed groups].”
“My husband and other young men are still under the rubble and have not been pulled out yet,” she added. “My husband’s cousin and her five children are still under the rubble.”
The director of the nearby Kamal Adwan hospital - which only has two doctors and limited nursing staff following an Israeli raid last week - said in a voice message recorded on Tuesday that it had received the bodies of more than 25 people killed in the strike and that another 77 were trapped under the rubble.
About 45 injured, including children and women, had also been brought to the hospital either by horse-drawn carts or by people carrying them, Dr Hussam Abu Safiya added.
The UN’s Middle East peace envoy, Tor Wennesland, said it was the latest in “a deadly series of recent mass casualty incidents, alongside a massive displacement campaign, in the north of Gaza that raises serious concerns about violations of humanitarian law”.
Hundreds of people have reportedly been killed since the Israeli military launched a ground offensive in Beit Lahia as well as neighbouring Jabalia and Beit Hanoun on 6 October, saying it was acting against regrouping Hamas fighters.
More than 70,000 residents have fled to Gaza City, but the UN estimates that about 100,000 remain in dire conditions, with severe shortages of food, water and medical supplies.
The offensive has also forced the closure of essential services, including medical facilities, firefighting, search and rescue, water wells and bakeries.
Israel launched a campaign to destroy Hamas in response to the group's unprecedented attack on southern Israel on 7 October 2023, in which about 1,200 people were killed and 251 others were taken hostage.
More than 43,160 people have been killed in Gaza since then, according to the territory's Hamas-run health ministry.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c6247nwz73do
 
innonimatu said:
No. The argument is bases on what is visibly going on.

Israel is the zionist state. Its founding principle and raision d'être, because it never changed from it, is to be the safe space for jews. If that changes they may be a polity called Israel for a while more still, but the national project will have failed. Then the zionists might as well have admitted defeat and let the politty move to the "single state solution" and have had peace decades ago.

The zionists won a few wars and sold themselves as local agents to the biggest empire in the world as servants. They then though they could have it all, greater Israel, and in their hubris annexed the west bank and Gaza, and attempted the annexation of southern Lebannon. This escalation, which made sure that Israel was locked in permanent hostility with the broader regions, would only work so long as Israel remained the sole regional power, the big bully everyone feared or, if war happened, that could defeat any adversary quickly. Hostility but no war or only brief and victorious wars, it looked safe enough.

But military occupation over hostile populations failed in the early 1990s, and that failure was confirmed in 2006. Rabin was no peace-loving dove, he moved towards an attempt and peace because he say disaster coming otherwise. Sharon, the war criminal, no one would think a dove. But he backed off Lebannon and partially disengaged from Gaza. He too could see the failure of the project coming, and would (as Rabin) save a smaller zionist state if he could. Then he went into a coma and the current idiot, whom Sharon has shoved aside as a dangerous fool, got back on the driver's seat with the (now obvious) insanity of Greater Israel as an aim. God, it appears (if you believe one), was not with Israel.

The current crazy PM's actions since have made sure that peace is now impossible. Too much bad blood. And that Israel is locked into a never-ending attritional war, not just within (where it attemps, without achieving, a genocide as a final solution on the internal front) but with the whole region. Northern Israel is now off-limits, the settlers there evacuated south. The missile exchanges with Iran made it clear to everyone in the region that Israel cannot defend itself against missiles, there is now a "balance of devastation" in the event of a big war. That makes a big, decisive war either impossible or suicidal. But that was the kind of war Israel has relied on to be the regional hegemon, the only kind it know how to win. The kind of war that had scared off continued armed resistance against its occupation and attacks against its neighbours. Prevented from escalating to a decisive war (that would require using nukes anyway), it means the attritional war will continue and continue. That means the zionist project, the safe space for jews, has failed. The state ideology has ailed. And there is nothing to replace it with because the current crazy PM burnt all bridges to peace.

The regional resistance against Israel is winning the war as it goes now. Despite the human cost. If the war continues long enough Israel collapses. It can be propped up only by US transfers of weapons and financial support and imports of every kind as Israel's economy falters. But that means giving up on the status of ally and becoming a mere military outpost, to be used or evacuated according to the needs of the empire it is part of. And the empire is wakening. The US's east of Suez moment is coming, no one thinks otherwise: look at the diplomatic raligments of so many countries in the region. At any rate Israel the state, Israel the safe home for jews, will be longer worth fighting for because it is no longer. Israelis will eveacuate, or perforce adapt to a different political reality. The writing, as the scriptures said, is on the wall.

The current war is the more evil, the more unjust, as is is a lost war for Israel. Pure waste.
Click to expand...
Insofar as I can tell, you have made incredibly pessimistic assessments of several things, unlikely to actually happen as you believe, and woven them together so as to envision a scenario in which Israel collapses.

I don't look at the strategic picture and conclude Israel is helpless. It looks like Iran's proxies are badly mauled and Iran is unable to meaningfully reply. The Sunni political elite want no part of the conflict, presently.

In the longer term, when the oil dries up, I'd wager the Israeli economy better off than its neighbors, with a relatively improved position. This will occur simultaneously to eve-greater recognition of the Israeli presence, and if that does not happen, it will appear more and more to be anti-semitism to the eyes of the world, not really a rallying cry.

Can't really envision a political or military path to victory like is suggested, certainly not short term, not long term either, but that's more uncertain.
 
www.aljazeera.com

Updates: At least 84 killed in Gaza; Israel resumes raids across Lebanon

These were the updates on Israel’s attacks on Lebanon and war on Gaza for Friday, November 1.
www.aljazeera.com www.aljazeera.com

1730533287709.jpeg


More than 50 children dead.
 

Dissenting officials demand probe of Americans killed in West Bank, Gaza​

Three serving US government attorneys have accused the Department of Justice of a "glaring gap" in upholding US laws in cases where Israeli military forces or civilians have allegedly killed American citizens.
The lawyers, two of whom spoke anonymously to the BBC, raised concerns in a letter to US Attorney General Merrick Garland that there had been a "potential violation of US law".
They cited cases of Americans who were allegedly killed in Israeli attacks in the occupied West Bank, Gaza and Lebanon and called for the department to open investigations.
The Department of Justice declined to comment when asked about the letter and other issues raised by its authors.

Asked to comment on the cases cited in the letter, the Israeli embassy in Washington said: "The State of Israel is committed to the rule of law. Every incident is thoroughly investigated by the IDF, and conclusions are drawn accordingly."
The letter underscores a series of principles regarding US citizens killed abroad that Mr Garland, who leads the Department of Justice (DoJ), had publicly highlighted recently.
America's top lawyer had emphasised the importance of applying US law when Americans are killed overseas and the need to expand US jurisdiction to prosecute alleged war crimes regardless of the nationality of those accused.

The letter says: “We write to address the glaring gap in our enforcement of these principles in connection with potential violations of U.S. law by Israeli government forces, citizens, and others acting in concert with them.”
“Despite credible evidence of violations of U.S. law… the Department has taken no public steps to hold the perpetrators to account, even when the victims are U.S. citizens.
“[T]he Department’s silence and apparent inaction is a stark omission,” it adds.
The letter’s authors say that unlike the US Department of State, the justice department has no informal mechanism for serving officials to express dissent. It’s unclear how widely the views expressed in the letter are shared among the thousands of attorneys who work at the department.
Their letter cites five US citizens killed in the occupied West Bank - Aysenur Ezgi Eygi, Tawfiq Abdel Jabbar, Mohammad Khdour, Omar Assad, and Shireen Abu Akleh. Their families have demanded accountability of Israeli forces or settlers alleged to be responsible for their deaths.
It also cites the cases of American aid worker Jacob Flickinger, killed in an Israeli airstrike in Gaza, and Kamel Ahmad Jawad, a US citizen killed in an Israeli airstrike in Lebanon.
Two of the attorneys who wrote the letter, both career federal prosecutors with the Department of Justice, spoke to the BBC on condition of anonymity. They signed the letter to Mr Garland “your colleagues”.
One told the BBC that the apparent lack of action over the deaths of Americans suggested the justice department was acting as an “apparatus of politics” for its ally. The second described “disparate treatment” when it came to US citizens who had “connections to the Palestinians”.
The attorney said: “This is a no brainer… Within the DoJ, everyone agrees that the killing of an American citizen is a non starter. You don't do that. And so the silence is deafening here.”

The attorneys’ letter notes that the US Department of Justice has brought charges charges against Hamas over the killings of American citizens. It also mentions that the department brought first-ever charges under the US war crimes statute against members of the Russian military in connection with the unlawful detainment of an American national.
But it says the department has announced no investigations into the deaths of Americans allegedly caused by Israeli military forces or civilians.
The attorneys demand the US "apply the same rigor" to all countries in these cases.
Their letter is the latest in a growing series of public criticisms throughout the last year backed by hundreds of current and former US officials over policy on Israel and the war in Gaza.
While the justice department would not comment on the letter, the US Department of State, when asked about such cases, has said that Israel carries out its own independent investigations and that they must be allowed to take their course.
Palestinian and Israeli human rights groups routinely point out, however, that such investigations almost never lead to prosecutions or meaningful accountability.
After intense public pressure, the FBI reportedly opened an inquiry in the 2022 case of Shireen Abu Akleh - the Palestinian-American Al Jazeera correspondent shot dead by Israeli forces in the occupied West Bank.
But this was never formally confirmed by the justice department, and US charges were never brought against anyone in the case.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ckgv03x040xo
 
Voidwalkin said:
Insofar as I can tell, you have made incredibly pessimistic assessments of several things, unlikely to actually happen as you believe, and woven them together so as to envision a scenario in which Israel collapses.

I don't look at the strategic picture and conclude Israel is helpless. It looks like Iran's proxies are badly mauled and Iran is unable to meaningfully reply. The Sunni political elite want no part of the conflict, presently.

In the longer term, when the oil dries up, I'd wager the Israeli economy better off than its neighbors, with a relatively improved position. This will occur simultaneously to eve-greater recognition of the Israeli presence, and if that does not happen, it will appear more and more to be anti-semitism to the eyes of the world, not really a rallying cry.

Can't really envision a political or military path to victory like is suggested, certainly not short term, not long term either, but that's more uncertain.
Click to expand...

To be clear: in my view the collapse of Israel is optimistic. Good riddance. A genocidal state, that had plentyful opportunities to change from its original sin of creation but refused every one, should not continue to exist.
I have had some sympathy as I always have when any populations difgging itself into a hole. Every colonial collapse involved nasty things that would better be avoided if at all possible, often with the colonists ending up perscuted, expelled or killed. The problem with Israel is that there was no lack of warning that they were on a evil path that could only lead to destruction and still they persist in it. There's a point where one ceases caring for those people. The palestinians deserve my concern. The israelis, no more. They are not all evil but it is by now clear that a majority are very much into this genocidal war.
 
On Israel's current status on the world, it is worth quiting what UN personnel tasked with reporting on the situations is saying:

But I’m telling you more. The genocidal statements didn’t resonate as shocking in the Israeli public, not only because there was rage, an enormous rage and animosity, of course. I mean, this is understandable, that the facts of October 7 were brutal and traumatized the people. But at the same time, hatred against the Palestinians and hate speech, it’s not something that started on October 7. I do remember, and I do remember the shock I felt because no one was reacting, and years ago, there were Israeli ministers talking of — freely, of killing, justifying the killing of Palestinians’ mothers and children because they would turn into terrorists.

[...] the International Court of Justice in July this year concluded, when it decided that the — when it found that Israel’s 57 years of occupation in Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem is unlawful and needs to be withdrawn totally and unconditionally, as rapidly as possibly, which the General Assembly says before — by September 2025. The court said that it amounts to — that the colonies amount to — have led to a process of annexation and racial segregation and apartheid. And these are the features of settler colonialism, the taking of the land, the taking of the resources, displacing the local population and replacing it. This has been a feature.

Now, it is in this context that we need to analyze what is happening today. And by the way, don’t believe, don’t listen only to Francesca Albanese. Listen to what these Israeli leaders and ministers are saying — reoccupying Gaza, retaking Gaza, recolonizing Gaza, reconquesting Gaza. This is what they are saying. And there are settlers on expeditions, not only to Gaza but also to Lebanon. So, this is why I say that the main difference, the main feature of this genocide, apart all the horrible aspects of it, is that this is the first settler-colonial genocide to be ever litigated before a court, an international court.
[...]
But all the more, this year alone, Israel has conducted an attack, an unprecedented attack, against the United Nations. It has attacked physically, through artillery, weapons, bombs, U.N. premises. Seventy percent of UNRWA offices and UNRWA buildings, clinics, distribution centers have been hit and shelled by the Israeli army. Two hundred thirty U.N. staff members have been killed by Israel in Gaza alone. U.N. peacekeepers in Lebanon have been attacked. And this doesn’t even take into account the smear, the defamation against senior U.N. officials, the declaration of the secretary-general as persona non grata, the referring to the General Assembly as a cloak of antisemites.

Again, this has mounted to a level — the hubris against the United Nations and international law has been unchecked and unbounded forever, but now, especially after the Knesset passed a law outlawing UNRWA, declaring UNRWA a terrorist organization, and therefore disabling it from its capacity to deliver aid and assistance especially in Gaza and the West Bank and East Jerusalem, this is the nail in the coffin of the U.N. Charter. And it can also contribute to that sense of colonial erasure, because here it’s not just at stake the function of a U.N. body — and UNRWA is a subsidiary body of the General Assembly, so it’s even more serious. But there is the capacity of UNRWA to deliver humanitarian aid in a desperate situation, and also the fact that UNRWA is seen by Israel as the symbol of Palestinian identity, especially the Palestinian refugees. So there is an attempt to erase Palestinianness, including by hitting UNRWA.


I mean, let me relate just this case, because last year I worked with children. And someone who was 17 before — 17 years old before October 7 last year had never set foot out of Gaza. This is the reality. And I spoke with children while I was writing my report on unchilding, the experience of Palestinians under Israeli occupation. And one of them — I mean, there were these two girls fighting, because one of them had been able to go to Israel and the West Bank because she had cancer and could be treated, and the other was jealous, because, she said, “At least she was sick, and she could go, she could travel. I’ve never seen the mountains.”
Click to expand...

This is a state that has imprisioned millions of natives in concentration camps and that is now bent on exterminating them so as to get all the "living room" wthout the hassle of having to manage the people as they were a bit rebellious.
That's 19th century stuff. The germans tried in in the 20th century are ended up crushed by the rest of the world. The South African colonists tried the apartheid but never outright concentration camps, nor genocide, and even they eventually had to give up on that. Israel can't get away with genocide in the 21sh century.
Israel made itself into, and now exists solely dependent on, as the US's agent in the Middle East. But retaining it is not a necessity for the US. It will be dropped. And by then the things the israeli state has done will be too much to forgive or forget. Even for those doing it. Apparently the israeli soldeirs are having a "surge in suicides". I can believe those are not just cover for casualties. Butchering other people day in, day in, takes its psycological toll.
 
innonimatu said:
Israel can't get away with genocide in the 21sh century.
Click to expand...
I would argue they are getting away with it.
The US has shown it has no interest in or ability to be a mediator. The EU is paralyzed on the subject. Russia and China have shown no interest in actually doing anything beyond the odd grip-and-grimace with foreign dignitaries. The Middle East is split, and we have increasingly been seeing that when push comes to shove, the region chooses maintaining a front against Iran as being more important than a front for Palestine.
The only people who have the power or influence to stop Israel is, well, Israel. And they have no interest in stopping when they are winning. If Harris wins the election, I expect a return to the traditional US position of expressing 'deep concern' and backroom pressure on Israel. If Trump wins the election, I can only see it getting worse.

innonimatu said:
Israel made itself into, and now exists solely dependent on, as the US's agent in the Middle East. But retaining it is not a necessity for the US. It will be dropped. And by then the things the israeli state has done will be too much to forgive or forget. Even for those doing it.
Click to expand...
If we were only looking at it from a foreign policy POV, I would agree. But it is necessary for the domestic political scene. The moment America moves toward even telling Israel to stop bombing hospitals, AIPAC swings into gear and starts deploying its resources and rent-a-pundits.
Two high profile pro-palestine democrats lost their primary campaign in 2024. Partially it was over them running poor campaigns / screwed with redistricting, but part of it was AIPAC flooding money into the race.
 
Ajidica said:
The US has shown it has no interest in or ability to be a mediator. The EU is paralyzed on the subject. Russia and China have shown no interest in actually doing anything beyond the odd grip-and-grimace with foreign dignitaries. The Middle East is split, and we have increasingly been seeing that when push comes to shove, the region chooses maintaining a front against Iran as being more important than a front for Palestine.
The only people who have the power or influence to stop Israel is, well, Israel. And they have no interest in stopping when they are winning. If Harris wins the election, I expect a return to the traditional US position of expressing 'deep concern' and backroom pressure on Israel. If Trump wins the election, I can only see it getting worse.
Click to expand...

China and Russia have been acting. And it shows.

China did the go-between diplomacy that ended the saudi-iranian mutual hostitily. They're now holding joing naval manouvers in the persian Gulf. That is a very big change.
Russua is probably providing intelligence and reconaissance to Iran, and may be helping with air defense. Israel's attempted attack failed, they tried to take down Iran's air defense netword and failed completely, had to quit further attacks. Everyone in the region noticed. Which explains why Saudi Arabia is snubbing the US this week with those manouvers.

Do not be deceived by AIPAC. It exists because the US governments tolerates it. Israel serves a purpose and if they (and wealthy suporters) are willing to pay for it so much the better, the politicians will take the money. They also took money from oligarchs of a number of other countries. Until US foreign policy put those countries in the crosshairs, then the tune changed completely. Imo Israel is the tool in that relations. Not the US. The israelis, the common israeli, probably doesn't know it, granted. The way things are going they are in for worse than a shock.
 
Why would China be preoccupied with genocide when both countries are attempting the same!? Russia with Ukrainian people and culture and China with the Uyghurs. Unless both Russian and Chinese leaders think that repeatedly denouncing Israel serves as a distraction for their crimes or that they are above them or that there are no crimes committed by them. Human rights and Russia and or China just don't go together well...I wonder if its just my perception?
 
Current colonizers try to do it on the downlow, previous colonizers keep theirs out of the education system and turn a blind eye when proxies do it.

The smoke kicked up by the accusations must be functional on some level as you see shills for one side or another contesting the use of the term genocide, when that is trademarked and what has occurred has been merely sparkling warcrimes.
 
Ordnael said:
Why would China be preoccupied with genocide when both countries are attempting the same!? Russia with Ukrainian people and culture and China with the Uyghurs. Unless both Russian and Chinese leaders think that repeatedly denouncing Israel serves as a distraction for their crimes or that they are above them or that there are no crimes committed by them. Human rights and Russia and or China just don't go together well...I wonder if its just my perception?
Click to expand...

Cut the Uyghur bullcrap talk. There has been no genocide nor even any "human rights" problem there. China had a problem with fundamentalist ggroups being used by other countries to do the usual terrorism, and stepped in early tu put a stop to those. Without bloodhed, a qorld apart from what the "west" had been doing with the "war on terror". Without torture camps spread through the world like the US did. The region is open for tourism, get your ass there and see for yourself. You're in need of a reality dose.

Genocide is bombing, shooting and burning alive men and women and children en masse to as to "clear the land". What Israel has been doing. You are aattempting distraction. And failing.
 
innonimatu said:
Cut the Uyghur bullcrap talk. There has been no genocide nor even any "human rights" problem there. China had a problem with fundamentalist ggroups being used by other countries to do the usual terrorism, and stepped in early tu put a stop to those. Without bloodhed, a qorld apart from what the "west" had been doing with the "war on terror". Without torture camps spread through the world like the US did. The region is open for tourism, get your ass there and see for yourself. You're in need of a reality dose.

Genocide is bombing, shooting and burning alive men and women and children en masse to as to "clear the land". What Israel has been doing. You are aattempting distraction. And failing.
Click to expand...

What China is doing is ethnocide. A destruction of entire culture in order to turn the population into obedient Chinese drones. There's less visible blood, but the result is turning the land into part of China, just like Israel is turning Gaza into part of Israel.
 
Sarin said:
What China is doing is ethnocide. A destruction of entire culture in order to turn the population into obedient Chinese drones. There's less visible blood, but the result is turning the land into part of China, just like Israel is turning Gaza into part of Israel.
Click to expand...
If we deplore female circumcision, which is, for example, in the culture of some tribes in Africa, isn't that the same thing? Or promote ‘modern’ new family (mostly Western) values in traditional Asian cultures? Isn't that ethnocide? It's a very slippery subject to call what is happening to the Uyghurs - ethnocide.

[snip]
Moderator Action: Edits by Birdjaguar
 
Last edited by a moderator:
banzay13 said:
If we deplore female circumcision, which is, for example, in the culture of some tribes in Africa, isn't that the same thing? Or promote ‘modern’ new family (mostly Western) values in traditional Asian cultures? Isn't that ethnocide? It's a very slippery subject to call what is happening to the Uyghurs - ethnocide.

Again, take Afghanistan as an interesting example. When the Soviets helped build "communism", with at least basic equality between men and women, it did not prevent the West from sponsoring Islamists, just to counteract the communists.

By the way, about Afghanistan - there is a very good fiction book. I recommend it.
en.wikipedia.org

A Thousand Splendid Suns - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...

False equivalence. Ones a cultural thing they do to themselves while China is doing it to others. Also see Tibet.
 
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