Lexicus
Deity
Substitute for what?
[RD] War in Gaza News: Pas de Deux
- Thread starter Birdjaguar
- Start date
Substitute for what?
Klaus Hergersheimer
King
Maybe some snark is deserved. I mean, the ICC is basically people larping as judges.
Interesting. How would you deal with the kinds of cases this body takes on. Should we just let folks crack on with said crimes?
Verbose
Deity
Back to the question people have to ask themselves: Do they want more or less international law in international politics? Everybody understands it's not bloody happening by itself.
The US as always can make it a choice to trade away principle for expediency as a function of power. Russia and China want the same for themselves – with a retur to "spheres of influence". Others are less fortunate, and are going to have to fight them over it at some point.
Question now might well be whether Putin will get right-of-conquest re-accepted as a valid principle in international poltics – or if Israel will try to beat Russia, with a series of annexations of their own?
Verbose
Deity
International law.
Estebonrober
Deity
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Yes, do you think that stealing and violence came about on accident? I do not think you understand who Israel is and you seem ignorant of their lengthy past of this kind of civil destruction. FFS they spread it around the world, even over here in the Americas... their ability repress local populations is a fudging export... and you come lecturing me about Gazans...lmao.
Israel's intent has always been to "finish the job". 10/7 was the excuse.
People are literally watching to worst genocide since WWII and you are all like "but the thieves in Gaza!?" It is an embarrassment.
He didn't bother replying to my source on the looters, and instead moved onto attempting to downplay the ICC. There's a theme there.
Estebonrober
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Yea it takes active cognitive dissonance to square this up in any mind that bothers to think about it for longer than a few minutes. It has to be subtly disorienting at times as you are forced to reframe a position from day to day.
Ordnael
Emperor
No doubt about it, and parading the "loot" from 10/7 on social media really sent a powerful message!
Lexicus
Deity
What does this even mean? Why do you appear to think my posts are more of a threat to international law than the rank hypocrisy of the US and its allies?
Klaus Hergersheimer
King
I hope this maybe answers your question:
I don't know how other countries work. But international agreements for the US have to be approved by our Senate; our president [or some such diplomat corps] doesn't simply sign off on an arrest warrant drafted by the Hague and then the feds put out an APB on Putin and Netanyahu.
Nor, practically, do I think it makes a great deal of sense to have diplomatic relations between two counties, and then a third interjects to demand that one detain/arrest the officials of the other because of some prior international treaty obligation. Who'd ever want to do business in that environment?
Now if the US wants to act on its own and legislate that Netanyahu isn't welcome in the US, they're free to do that.
But as the US withdrew from the ICC over 20 years ago anyway, iirc, this whole thing is basically toilet paper as far as Americans go...
Bonyduck Campersang
Odd lookin duck
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Whom should I trust? The judges sitting on the International Criminal Court, or video game forum poster Klaus Hergersheimer?
banzay13
King
In nowadays, unfortunately - it's not a simple questionWhom should I trust? The judges sitting on the International Criminal Court, or video game forum poster Klaus Hergersheimer?
Klaus Hergersheimer
King
speaking of snark...Whom should I trust? The judges sitting on the International Criminal Court, or video game forum poster Klaus Hergersheimer?
(btw, this is a discussion board, so if your "yeah well you're just some guy on the internet" is valid here, why should you believe anyone who's anonymous and doesn't have a fancy office to go to instead of posting here?)
So anyway
the ICC didn't do anything similar about Syria's Bashar Assad for killing like ten times more people than Netanyahu ever could have hoped to do (and with chemical weapons). So maybe it's not entirely an issue about trust rather than: does this transnational institution align with my politics at any one moment...
Presumably, the ICC felt as though that the former was some internal conflict whose multiple outside actors were at odds with one another and we shouldn't wade into it for the sake of peace. Whereas Palestine is already recognized by a fair number of countries as its own nation and thus Israel has more or less "invaded" them (if they haven't done so already).
Lexicus
Deity
Syria is not an ICC member state (party to the Rome statute) and China and Russia both vetoed the UNSC's referral of the Syrian Civil War to the ICC. By contrast, Palestine is a party to the Rome Statute. It is helpful to know literally anything about an issue before you post about it.
Klaus Hergersheimer
King
Well nor is Israel a member state but that's no inhibitor for the ICC ruling against them. But thank you for your attention.
Bonyduck Campersang
Odd lookin duck
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The crimes took place in Palestinian territory, which comes under ICC jurisdiction
pigswill
fly (one day)
Israel's stated war objective is to destroy Hamas in Gaza, Hamas is/was the civil authority in Gaza, the steady destruction of Hamas has degraded their ability to maintain law and order, which is a function of a civil authority, therefore law and order is collapsing. Who do you blame for this? Hamas for not doing their job or Israel for destroying Hamas' ability to do their job?
Unrelated point. It seems odd to me that when Russia bombed a hospital in Ukraine claiming they had intelligence it was being used by the Ukraine Army there was a huge outcry which included the US of A. When Israel bombed a hospital in Gaza claiming they had intelligence it was a Hamas command post there was no similar outcry but rather a claim that it was a legitimate military target. Same target, same justification, totally opposite response. Maybe this is why some people think the US of A is more than slightly hypocritical. In view of this institutional hypocrisy its totally unsurprising that the US of A is condemning the ICC arrest warrants for Israeli politicians.
Unrelated point. It seems odd to me that when Russia bombed a hospital in Ukraine claiming they had intelligence it was being used by the Ukraine Army there was a huge outcry which included the US of A. When Israel bombed a hospital in Gaza claiming they had intelligence it was a Hamas command post there was no similar outcry but rather a claim that it was a legitimate military target. Same target, same justification, totally opposite response. Maybe this is why some people think the US of A is more than slightly hypocritical. In view of this institutional hypocrisy its totally unsurprising that the US of A is condemning the ICC arrest warrants for Israeli politicians.
Klaus Hergersheimer
King
- Palestine territory within a Israel state which is still not a signatory. But for a moment let's just assume there's no discrepancy:
- Netanyahu himself wasn't in said jurisdiction in Palestine (or at least he didn't make it apparent), unless we're just vicariously linking back to him actions done by subordinates who were...
Estebonrober
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No doubt, but not quite as edgelord as Israelis posting their war crimes on Instagram. It's clear who the real evil is in the region.
