[RD] War in Ukraine: Other topics

Quite, but the fact that the Ukrainian motives may be different from USA motives does not alter my summation of US motives from that text.
 
I already said myself the us motive is to simply weaken Russia as much as possible, short of nuclear war. I expect the conflict to end with an uneasy ceasefire, but Russia will have had to capture most of Ukraine including the capital for it to have remotely been worth the cost.
 
No, because the Zelesnky can make peace with Russia whenever he wants.
No he cannot. He's not a dictator. He's constitutionally prevented from ceding Ukranian territory here.

So then all manner of interesting scenarions might play out, like if there is an outright Ukranian military collapse and Russia overruns the place, but Zelensky then still cannot make peace. Or if there is such a collapse he might instruct Ukranian forces to surrender to the Russians locally, but still not make peace of surrender Ukraine. Or he might face a military coup d'état and be removed that way...
 
That was honest.
Yes as I’m known to be to the point. But it’s not like what I said was wrong. Soviet Union armed the Vietcong against America for the same reason. And Americans armed afghans while Soviet Union was there. I have a good understanding of the way geo politics works, and call it out for what it is.

Edit: @red_elk
 
The Viekong didn't get decisive military victories against America for the most part, but they didn't need to for America to give up and go home. Ditto for the Taliban.
One big difference. Vietcong and Taliban does not lack manpower and their social circumstances allows the leadership to force anyone to the front.

Ukraine is having manpower shortages and no defensible terrain. But their technological gap compared to the invaders is also not as large.

idk I probably drank too much
 
This could be summarised as the USA fighting Russia to the last dead Ukrainian soldier.

It remains to be seen how long the Ukrainians will go along with being such cannon fodder.
You realize that Russia is the one who attacked Ukraine that the Ukrainians are defending themselves ? They aren't "cannon fodder" for anyone, THEY ARE DEFENDING THEMSELVES AGAINST AN INVASION.
Do you even realize how your sentences makes no sense save being copy-pasted straight from mindless Russian propaganda ?

I just can't wrap my head around how some people manage to "forget" the entire facts on the ground just because they want so hard to believe some weird bizarro-reverse world where the invaded are somehow "forced into" defending themselves by anyone but the invaders.
 
I just can't wrap my head around how some people manage to "forget" the entire facts on the ground just because they want so hard to believe some weird bizarro-reverse world where the invaded are somehow "forced into" defending themselves by anyone but the invaders.
Russia fell into America's/Nato's/Eu's (pick the one you like the least) trap of placing natural resources in the areas they wanted Russia to attack.
But Russia spotted the ruse and they didn't want or need those natural resources.
Instead Russia is freeing Ukrainian civilians from Ukrainian opression. Sure, they're killing Ukrainian civilians to do so, but at least they're not opressed anymore.
Now Russia is occupying those areas, the Ukrainians finally live in freedom from Ukrainian occupation.
The fact that those areas also happen to have these natural resources is just a coincidence.

I don't understand why you can't wrap your head around this simple reasoning.
 
You realize that Russia is the one who attacked Ukraine that the Ukrainians are defending themselves ? They aren't "cannon fodder" for anyone, THEY ARE DEFENDING THEMSELVES AGAINST AN INVASION.
Do you even realize how your sentences makes no sense save being copy-pasted straight from mindless Russian propaganda ?

I just can't wrap my head around how some people manage to "forget" the entire facts on the ground just because they want so hard to believe some weird bizarro-reverse world where the invaded are somehow "forced into" defending themselves by anyone but the invaders.

This thread is about current news, posting about historical causes is not permitted so a proper reply is precluded

There is no need to shout. Their fighting against an invasion is self evident.

I have not discussed the other motivations of the individual Ukrainian soldiers (which I suspect may vary a little).
Obviously a Ukrainian soldier may fight when their unit is attacked or ordered to do so or for hatred of the enemy or esprit de corp,
but do they all share the Ukrainian government objective, as supported by the US treaty, of fighting on and on to re-incorporate
the majority Russian areas until the entirety of the old SSR, the 1991 Ukraine state including the Crimea is recovered ?

But none of this alters the point about the USA wishing to see Russia weakened at the expense of Ukrainian, rather than US, lives.
 
But none of this alters the point about the USA wishing to see Russia weakened at the expense of Ukrainian, rather than US, lives.
No, this point is pretty obvious (if cynical and reductionist).
But "Ukrainians are defending themselves, and the US benefits from this because it weaken Russia" is a VERY different take than "the USA forces Ukraine to fight Russia to weaken the latter", the second being a straight-up insane inversion of reality.
 
the moment one understand who's invaded and who's invading, the use of the expression is not neutral. It shows an active support of Russian propaganda, not just a manipulation from.

I mean the only reason one has to use the expression is to oppose the US support to Ukraine.
 
"The US motive is to weaken Russia" and "The casualties Ukraine is taking are not the point", are pretty much the equivalent of saying that US is willing to fight Russia till the last Ukrainian.
 
"The US motive is to weaken Russia" and "The casualties Ukraine is taking are not the point", are pretty much the equivalent of saying that US is willing to fight Russia till the last Ukrainian.
The nationality is not the point either, you can replace Ukrainians by anyone not US.

But the expression is designed and used by Russian propagandist to make anyone supporting Ukraine looking like someone willing to kill all Ukrainians, when they in fact have no power on that, unlike Russians.
 
The nationality is not the point either, you can replace Ukrainians by anyone not US.

But the expression is designed and used by Russian propagandist to make anyone supporting Ukraine looking like someone willing to kill all Ukrainians, when they in fact have no power on that, unlike Russians.
No, the expression only means US don't care about Ukrainian lives, just about achieving their goal.
And this is truth which you and several other posters actively dislike, bringing up ad-hominems.
 
No, the expression only means US don't care about Ukrainian lives, just about achieving their goal.
And this is truth which you and several other posters actively dislike, bringing up ad-hominems.
Which USians are you talking about? Which version of the US government?
 
It's an acknowledgement that rabid animals are unsafe, at most.
 
No, the expression only means US don't care about Ukrainian lives, just about achieving their goal.
And this is truth which you and several other posters actively dislike, bringing up ad-hominems.
it's the disgusting act of inverting the roles that I hate.

the truth is that Russians are killing Ukrainians, and willingly do it, even after they surrender, even civilians.
 
The truth is that US will happily brand the same Ukrainians they are supporting now as "terrorists", and bomb them to dust, if it will serve their geopolitical interests.
And you, dear Europeans, won't mumble a word against it. May be say they are bad and go protest couple of times, like you did in 2003.
That's your destiny, being part of Pax Americana.
 
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