[RD] War in Ukraine: Other topics

[red_elk]

Meanwhile, Germans are alarmed about Russia's military buildup.

German security officials say Putin is well-positioned to hit a declared target of a 1.5 million–troop army next year. That rapid industrial and military build-up has rattled European policymakers, who increasingly see it as preparation for military action beyond Ukraine.
“Russia is continuing to build up its army and is mobilizing on a scale that suggests a larger military confrontation with additional European states,” says German Bundestag member Roderich Kiesewetter, a security expert from Chancellor Friedrich Merz’s party.

Someone should explain them that Poles can "reach Moscow unopposed" with just 4 tanks.

There’s no moral high ground on which to criticize the Ukrainians.

My post was the opposite of criticizing Ukrainians.

 

[amadeus]

My post was the opposite of criticizing Ukrainians

I was retyping part of the message and apparently forgot to include the part I was trying to actually say—I edited it in now.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Meanwhile, Germans are alarmed about Russia's military buildup.

Someone should explain them that Poles can "reach Moscow unopposed" with just 4 tanks.

And the chancellor is right about strengthening German army. AFTER the war in Ukraine ends, there will be an army of zombies wandering around Russia, survivors of the meat grinder, where like your own article and all the sources estimate (except the Kremlim of course but that is not a source) more than a million of Russians have already been killed, mutilated or disabled, (and counting). Putin will probably launch such mindless mass against the tiny Baltics (wouldn't dare against a country with a decent western style army like Poland), confident on the White House weakness under the traitor Trump (better to hurry up with Ukraine since Trump will not last forever) and on European division, it will be another wrong calculation by the psyco midget of course, even way worse than the attack on Ukraine, that will lead to war with the Europeans big states (at least) and a more than possible nuclear escalation since Russia will be inevitably crushed conventionally. So better to deter the midget before he has such funny ideas.

But right now the whole Russian army is in Ukraine being reduced to meat bags, and Russia is not ready at all to stop any attack from the west like your owner Putin suggested. Exactly like two years ago with the chef, when Russia was unable to stop a few thousand men with some armor. All the Russian army could do was to send some attack helicopters armed with rockets in desperate suicide missions which were immediately downed, and place a bunch of light untrained infantry of the national guard at the southmost outskirts of Moscow which had not chance against Prigozhin's column. Particularly funny was seeing Putin's personal plane leaving Moscow to Saint Petersburg (Putin was not on board of course according to informations from the Kremlim lol). Must be hard to have such coward like lord and savior. Fortunately for Putin Prigozhin was as gullible as the average Russian, something he payed with his life, just as countless other Russians.

 

[Kyriakos]

When you are referring to "psycho midget", naturally the realm within which this entity exists cannot include anything other than aspirations to destroy Europe. But it is very similar to what the Pétain government propaganda was as well; it explicitly presented Russia as the enemy of Europe and encouraged waffen formations. There's a very characteristic drawing from the period, with massive european (not just nazi german, nor limited to officially nazi-allied states; Iberia was there too for example) armies being sent to the Urals.
Even if Putin wanted to invade the Eu, it would have been obvious to him from the time it takes to defeat Ukraine that it isn't viable. But this war may well happen, just with the other side starting it.
The Prigozhin arc was funny, but it's what mercenary companies may always end up doing - the Catalan company is a particularly nasty example of that. Russia relies on more than just mercenary groups so the collapse was averted. One should moreover doubt that had it been a foreign state army marching, Russia would still shy away from using scores of missiles against it.

 

[Gedemon]

When you are referring to "psycho midget", naturally the realm within which this entity exists cannot include anything other than aspirations to destroy Europe. But it is very similar to what the Pétain government propaganda was as well; it explicitly presented Russia as the enemy of Europe and encouraged waffen formations. There's a very characteristic drawing from the period, with massive european (not just nazi german, nor limited to officially nazi-allied states; Iberia was there too for example) armies being sent to the Urals.
Even if Putin wanted to invade the Eu, it would have been obvious to him from the time it takes to defeat Ukraine that it isn't viable. But this war may well happen, just with the other side starting it.
The Prigozhin arc was funny, but it's what mercenary companies may always end up doing - the Catalan company is a particularly nasty example of that. Russia relies on more than just mercenary groups so the collapse was averted. One should moreover doubt that had it been a foreign state army marching, Russia would still shy away from using scores of missiles against it.

You could directly start by saying France and UK, well know warmonger of the time that gave Hitler everything to try to maintain peace until 1939, were also ready to send troops through Norway and Sweden to help Finland from the Soviet invasion, at the time they were still allied to nazi Germany, and providing it with foods and petrol.

So let's not forget who really started WWII in Europe and who was its ally. Remember than still today Putin says Hitler had no choices but invade Poland, and that it's in fact Poland who started it from his point of view.

A point of view you're making yours the way you're now saying EU is going to start a war with Russia by refusing to give it back Soviet Republics and post WWII satellite states.

 

[Kyriakos]

You could directly start by saying France and UK, well know warmonger of the time that gave Hitler everything to try to maintain peace until 1939, were also ready to send troops through Norway and Sweden to help Finland from the Soviet invasion, at the time they were still allied to nazi Germany, and providing it with foods and petrol.

So let's not forget who really started WWII in Europe and who was its ally. Remember than still today Putin says Hitler had no choices but invade Poland, and that it's in fact Poland who started it from his point of view.

A point of view you're making yours the way you're now saying EU is going to start a war with Russia by refusing to give it back Soviet Republics and post WWII satellite states.

I am not in favor of Russia trying to invade parts of the Eu. I just don't see it being the aspiration of Putin either - for only cartoon characters would fail to notice that extrapolating from what happened in Ukraine, Russia certainly cannot easily conquer parts of the Eu. Personally I am of the opinion that this massive war is coming, and possibly already we are in the point of no return, so there's no passion needed in talking about an apparent (at this stage, not from the start) inevitability.
If you want peace, prepare for war. Also do that if you want war.

 

[Gedemon]

I am not in favor of Russia trying to invade parts of the Eu. I just don't see it being the aspiration of Putin either - for only cartoon characters would fail to notice that extrapolating from what happened in Ukraine, Russia certainly cannot easily conquer parts of the Eu. Personally I am of the opinion that this massive war is coming, and possibly already we are in the point of no return, so there's no passion needed in talking about an apparent (at this stage, not from the start) inevitability.
If you want peace, prepare to war. Also do that if you want war.

One of Russian propaganda most incredible success is the way they managed to make people in the west into thinking AT THE SAME TIME that Russia is so powerful that helping Ukraine to defend itself in any way, including air support or boots on the ground is completely useless AND Russia is so weak that it couldn't even take a few km² of a Baltic State.

 

[Kyriakos]

One of Russian propaganda most incredible success is the way they managed to make people in the west into thinking AT THE SAME TIME that Russia is so powerful that helping Ukraine to defend itself in any way, including air support or boots on the ground is completely useless AND Russia is so weak that it couldn't even take a few km² of a Baltic State.

Those flamboyant dichotomies do exist, yes, but they are dichotomised further as they have analogies against 'the other team'. It's very common, in the prelude of an actually generalized and great war.
Baltic states (not Poland) would fall fast if not supported, that is obvious. But you don't resurrect Germany as the main european military power to not support them (not for them, but let's say it was for them - it changes nothing).

 

[Gedemon]

I've given you the most likely scenario Russia is going to use in a gamble to make NATO and EU collective defense implode politically.

Can you give me a scenario where Germany or Poland starts a war with Russia ? It would help me understand what you mean by EU being the aggressor and a threat to Russia.

I do agree with red_elk on "Europe doesn't threaten Russian security", for the exact same reasons, and I would not plan on Putin's gamble to fail when Russia will make its move.

And ironically if Russia really started the war because they thought the US forces in Europe were the threat to their security, they wasted almost 2 millions lives (both side cumulated) by not waiting a couple years, as the US is already leaving Europe defense to European nations, peace plan for Ukraine or not.

 

[Kyriakos]

The most likely scenario for part of the Eu starting such a war would be to not officially start it but react more directly to a new war that Russia gets in (with or without Eu involvement behind the scenes). Much like there were suggestions of sending Eu armies or regiments to fight in Ukraine, in a next conflict the war industry to which Germany and others were forced to pivot to due to expensive energy would by that time be ready to dispense of material and people.
I don't see an Eu army amassing in eastern Poland without Russia still being in a war, nor do I see Ukraine escaping a peace agreement to end the current war.
As for your point about waiting for the US to leave, you seem to forget that it first got what it wanted: you are dependent on ocean-away transported US lng. I see literally no reason to expect that Trump would had left without it, when Biden made it a point to force it.

 

[red_elk]

I was retyping part of the message and apparently forgot to include the part I was trying to actually say—I edited it in now.

That's still misinterpretation.

 

[red_elk]

Remember than still today Putin says Hitler had no choices but invade Poland, and that it's in fact Poland who started it from his point of view.

He said Poland provoked Hitler to attack them. Neither that Hitler "had no choice", nor that Poland "started WW2".

Also, unlike France, USSR has never been Hitler's ally.

 

[Joij21]

One of Russian propaganda most incredible success is the way they managed to make people in the west into thinking AT THE SAME TIME that Russia is so powerful that helping Ukraine to defend itself in any way, including air support or boots on the ground is completely useless AND Russia is so weak that it couldn't even take a few km² of a Baltic State.

That's actually more what the Western narrative on Russia has been. It's just the Russians decided to go along with it and uno reverse it back to the West for their own propaganda campaign.

Western media/"experts" too believes Russia is so comically weak that we must give more military aid to Ukraine or put boots on the ground and start WW3, while at the same time arguing that Russia is somehow so stronk and demonic that they'll blitz all of Europe if WW3 isn't started sooner on EU terms with more land in Ukraine intact as a buffer zone.

So the Russians I guess just went along with that logic and went: "Okay if Russia is so weak then there's no way we can invade any other European country after Ukraine, while at the same time since we're so strong and demonic there's no point helping Ukraine anymore and starting WW3 cause it's essentially a lost cause now."

Putin will probably launch such mindless mass against the tiny Baltics (wouldn't dare against a country with a decent western style army like Poland), confident on the White House weakness under the traitor Trump (better to hurry up with Ukraine since Trump will not last forever) and on European division, it will be another wrong calculation by the psyco midget of course, even way worse than the attack on Ukraine, that will lead to war with the Europeans big states (at least) and a more than possible nuclear escalation since Russia will be inevitably crushed conventionally. So better to deter the midget before he has such funny ideas.

Again proof of the doublespeak narrative originally coming from the West.

West is so weak because of Trump thereby making Putin so stronk that he molests West, yet somehow West is also secretly stronk that it crushes weakling Putler despite a non cooperative Trump. But it doesn't matter anyway because the Putler throws an inevitable nuclear temper tantrum, which then invalidates the whole West should start WW3 on better footing earlier since it is argued that if Putler loses conventionally the world ends regardless of whether it began on or not on Western terms (because it is further assumed that the West will always win conventionally regardless if it starts with a greater or lesser buffer zone cause the West is magically that much richer and goodlier (which then further erodes the idea that there was ever anything at stake or to worry about to begin with from the West's perspective since it's assumed to always magically win no matter what happens)

 

[Gedemon]

Western media/"experts" too believes Russia is so comically weak that we must give more military aid to Ukraine or put boots on the ground and start WW3, while at the same time arguing that Russia is somehow so stronk and demonic that they'll blitz all of Europe if WW3 isn't started sooner on EU terms with more land in Ukraine intact as a buffer zone.

From my PoV those useful idiots you're citing are the one propagating Russian propaganda in the West, long before 2022, and I fail to see how it's not benefiting Russia, and Russia alone.

Now in the serious media I'm reading, it's neither.

 

[Sarin]

And here we see results of Russian propaganda firsthand.

Nobody is actually seriously arguing that Russia is simultaneously strong and weak.
In terms of conventional warfare, Russia is throwing all its resources into war in Ukraine, to the point it had to abandon its allies in Syria and Armenia. But it's throwing over 1/3 of its budget into military, and at this rate will be able to rebuild its forces after the war at rapid pace, to the point where some estimate that it can launch a "limited war gamble" against Baltic states in three years after the end of war. And Europe needs to be ready for that.
And there there's over a decade of Russia's hybrid war against Europe, ranging from propaganda and backstage political influence to electronic warfare and sabotage. Russia is really strong in this aspect.

 

[Joij21]

From my PoV those useful idiots you're citing are the one propagating Russian propaganda in the West, long before 2022, and I fail to see how it's not benefiting Russia, and Russia alone.

Now in the serious media I'm reading, it's neither.

Which serious media? Are you saying that the vast majority of the media has fallen for Russian propaganda?

And here we see results of Russian propaganda firsthand.

Nobody is actually seriously arguing that Russia is simultaneously strong and weak.
In terms of conventional warfare, Russia is throwing all its resources into war in Ukraine, to the point it had to abandon its allies in Syria and Armenia. But it's throwing over 1/3 of its budget into military, and at this rate will be able to rebuild its forces after the war at rapid pace, to the point where some estimate that it can launch a "limited war gamble" against Baltic states in three years after the end of war. And Europe needs to be ready for that.
And there there's over a decade of Russia's hybrid war against Europe, ranging from propaganda and backstage political influence to electronic warfare and sabotage. Russia is really strong in this aspect.

Europeans don't want to give up their welfare states. Or get conscripted.

What happened to the narrative that Russia was too poor and simply a "gass station" to rebuild it's military?

 

[Verbose]

Europeans don't want to give up their welfare states. Or get conscripted.

Strawman. And a false dichotomy.

 

[Gedemon]

Which serious media? Are you saying that the vast majority of the media has fallen for Russian propaganda?

Those days "journalists" are just reporting "news" as they were written, adding "according to the Kremlin/Kiev".

Most are giving air time to the so-called "experts" you're referring.

"fallen" is not the word, as they do not publish only Russian propaganda, but yes, the vast majority does propagate it.

 

[Joij21]

Strawman. And a false dichotomy.

What are you trying to say? That Europe doesn't need to cut its welfare budget to increase the size of its military?

Europe is so rich huh. Then explain why most major European countries are looking into more austerity measures if that is true?

 

[Verbose]

What are you trying to say? That Europe doesn't need to cut its welfare budget to increase the size of its military?

Yes.