[RD] War in Ukraine: Other topics

[r16]

putin did never threaten New Turkey with nuclear weapons . Stopping tomato imports and decreasing tourists for Antalya was enough to sell S-400 systems in compansation for the Su-24 shot down in 2015 .

 

[Verbose]

nice words . Doesn't cover Macron threatening us with nuclear weapons to sell just a a year and a half's factory time of Dassault's combat programme to Greece . ı have no interest for business with Ukraine . But then you weren't offering me a bit of the pie .

Ukrainians have business in Ukraine, which was why the Maidan revolution kicked off in 2014. And why accepting that it was a revolution is unthinkable anathema in Russia (had to be a "coup" instead) – not only would if accept that Ukranians are real, and have political agency, it would mean accepting they successfully did something about it.

Being cynical about the world doesn't make one right, or even clear-sighted – just cynical.

 

[r16]

like try stop seeing everyone as a Russian bot for a while . Quite content with the percentage ı have turned out to be right .

 

[Verbose]

putin did never threaten New Turkey with nuclear weapons . Stopping tomato imports and decreasing tourists for Antalya was enough to sell S-400 systems in compansation for the Su-24 shot down in 2015 .

If we all took a page from the Turkish play-book here, the first order of the day would be for NATO to start knocking Russian military aircraft out of the sky.

Sure that would mean some serious risk-taking, but going by the Turkish example – the Russian nuclear threat, going for many years now, against the Baltics, the Nordics and other assorted western countries would end immediately like that.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/15k0crx/a_list_of_russian_nuclear_threats_in_timeline

 

[r16]

these 2 years should have taught anyone to re-read the WW 2 stuff . Russians love the West the so much . Do better , watch them do better .

 

[Gedemon]

nice words . Doesn't cover Macron threatening us with nuclear weapons to sell just a a year and a half's factory time of Dassault's combat programme to Greece

source ?

 

[Verbose]

these 2 years should have taught anyone to re-read the WW 2 stuff . Russians love the West the so much . Do better , watch them do better .

As you might have noticed, no one is following Turkey's lead re downing Russian military jets here.

 

[r16]

as ı am not a Russian , please do not threaten me with shooting down Russian jets . Like the West has done that already .

 

[r16]

source ?

r16

though if you are going to insist , here is the Goverment's mouthpiece , which ı ignore readily .

Yunanistan, Türkiye'ye karşı sırtını 'nükleer güç' sahibi Fransa'ya dayıyor

Uzmanlar, Yunanistan ile Fransa'nın imzaladığı stratejik ortaklık anlaşması gibi adımlarla Doğu Akdeniz'de Soğuk Savaş dönemine benzer bir ortama zemin hazırlandığını düşünüyor. - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

Moderator Action: We need an English translation or your summary of the link, thanks. Birdjaguar

 

[Verbose]

as ı am not a Russian , please do not threaten me with shooting down Russian jets . Like the West has done that already .

Are you somehow writing things in Turkish, and using machine translation to English – and vice versa for what is posted in English?

It is the only reasonable scenario I can come up with to explain your apparent total lack of comprehension here.

 

[Gedemon]

r16

though if you are going to insist , here is the Goverment's mouthpiece , which ı ignore readily .

Yunanistan, Türkiye'ye karşı sırtını 'nükleer güç' sahibi Fransa'ya dayıyor

Uzmanlar, Yunanistan ile Fransa'nın imzaladığı stratejik ortaklık anlaşması gibi adımlarla Doğu Akdeniz'de Soğuk Savaş dönemine benzer bir ortama zemin hazırlandığını düşünüyor. - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

thanks for the source, but nothing about nuclear threats in there.

 

[r16]

this thing starts with the idea that the war is business . A fresh example given as France will be supplying Mirage 2000 jets . Which is a further burden on the Ukranians as it will be an entirely new set of logistics supply requirements , even if French bombs must be in service over there . Give them more F-16s , now that they are fighting for their lives , right ? And we get almost a page of stuff . Do you have any particular problems with my comment that the Ukranian debts will have to be paid with a Rafale contract to guarantee sales until 2040 , the year the French 5th generation fighter is expected into service and cleared for exports as well ?

 

[r16]

thanks, mot of

thanks for the source, but nothing about nuclear threats in there.

that's because you lack the context . Strategic partnership deal to secure transfer of natural gas off Cyprus as the Libyan deal New Turkey had made was a problem . This was also the time New Turkey under British protection defeated United Arab Emirates in a minor series of drone wars . The jet fighter raid on the New Turkey base came out as the last act , because a Russian MiG-29 squadron was flown in to assure no fly zone stuff just in time , otherwise it would have seen Rafales shot down in aerial combat , hopefully with French pilots in them . Macron threatened this country with nuclear weapons to sell jets to Athens which had pinned its hopes on some sort of Israeli alliance . This is Macron at his finest . Kicked out in the Aukus submarine saga he comes out high flying and kicking backside . After making sure it is guaranteed to be safe .

 

[Gedemon]

this thing starts with the idea that the war is business . A fresh example given as France will be supplying Mirage 2000 jets . Which is a further burden on the Ukranians as it will be an entirely new set of logistics supply requirements , even if French bombs must be in service over there . Give them more F-16s , now that they are fighting for their lives , right ? And we get almost a page of stuff . Do you have any particular problems with my comment that the Ukranian debts will have to be paid with a Rafale contract to guarantee sales until 2040 , the year the French 5th generation fighter is expected into service and cleared for exports as well ?

I'm pretty sure we'll try to sell Rafale, after the war, but I fully disagree on the fact Ukraine doesn't need the Mirage, or helping Ukraine against Russia with everything we can now is not in France best interests, even without future sales. The submarines deal has shown there is no "guarantee" between allies anyway, in the future the Ukrainians may say "thanks for the Mirage, but we'll go for the F-35 for the next generation, they come with a nuclear umbrella bonus".

that's because you lack the context . Strategic partnership deal to secure transfer of natural gas off Cyprus as the Libyan deal New Turkey had made was a problem . This was also the time New Turkey under British protection defeated United Arab Emirates in a minor series of drone wars . The jet fighter raid on the New Turkey base came out as the last act , because a Russian MiG-29 squadron was flown in to assure no fly zone stuff just in time , otherwise it would have seen Rafales shot down in aerial combat , hopefully with French pilots in them . Macron threatened this country with nuclear weapons to sell jets to Athens which had pinned its hopes on some sort of Israeli alliance . This is Macron at his finest . Kicked out in the Aukus submarine saga he comes out high flying and kicking backside . After making sure it is guaranteed to be safe .

out of your head, ok, got it.

 

[r16]

if you want it so , ı can make it definitely so . The spoils of war will not be there to enjoy . You will definitely sell Rafales as an obligation barring , you know , accidents and incidents ... Loop to top . Even if your first quote was for Verbose .

 

[Zardnaar]

america is the greatest threat to the American dominated world order . And , like , if Russia and China also bows out , who is going to protect you people from the evils of the world . Take a clue , from those who no longer teach the truth everyday , about the business aspects of Ukranian blood converted into wealth .

Well lat time the Europeans were in charge we got WW1 and 2.


Pax Britannica and America is about the best we have done.

And Asia had their wars as well.

 

[banzay13]

Well lat time the Europeans were in charge we got WW1 and 2.


Pax Britannica and America is about the best we have done.

And Asia had their wars as well.

We need Pax Roman World

 

[r16]

Moderator Action: We need an English translation or your summary of the link, thanks. Birdjaguar

typical of New Turkey media . Glorious advances [this time in Africa] make the enemy countries jealous and they don't want to share [this time gas in the Mediterranean] . The enemy have signed a treaty against New Turkey but it is a pathetic treaty . New Turkey stronk! Very stronk Air Defence! Article two of this treaty says the enemy countries will help each other if they come under attack in their "own areas" but New Turkey is in NATO as are the enemy countries , so it won't work . Macron very angry about Australians not buying submarines so sells ships and planes to poor Greece , poor since 2008 , could not handle the coronavirus thing , too . You are expected to know New Turkey handled the coronavirus thing very well , New Turkey medicine stronk! Greece made multiple treaties in the period , always declaring they were not against third parties . This was clearly hinted to be against the Turks . The Greek Prime Minister said they couldn't refuse to sign the deal when the EU's only nuclear power beckoned . Usual stuff ı never bother to read anyhow .

when 20th century obligations still remain , you can not shoot down Egyptians who did their best not to get involved against the mostly ex-Congregation prisoners and whatnot deployed in return for a chance for a white sheet ; simply because all the reports would define the lot as Turkish Military personnel .

you see , there are things that will not be on the news . If r16 says France threatened the use of nuclear weapons to sell just a squadron of Rafales and gives a link that says nuclear weapons to come up in machine translation , it is only the experts of the subject to think it is indeed the case and Macron promised a nuclear umbrella to sell the planes and will reject any and all Greek calls for assistance with a made up tale of Pakistan donating things . Will sell another batch of Rafales , too , when the war is over ...

 

[Snowygerry]

I was just reading the memoirs of a French general Marbot, honestly, what changed in 200 years...?

I have never understood with what aim the Russian government brought from so far and at such great expense these masses of irregular cavalry, who having neither sabres nor lances nor any kind of firearm, were unable to stand up against trained soldiers, and served only to strip the countryside and starve the regular forces, which alone were capable of resisting a European enemy. Our soldiers were not in the least alarmed at the sight ofthese semi-barbarous Asiatics, whom they nicknamed cupids,because of their bows and arrows.

Nevertheless, these newcomers, who did not yet know the French, had been so indoctrinated by their leaders, almost as ignorant as themselves, that they expected to see us take flight at their approach; and so they could not wait to attack us. From the very day of their arrival in sight of our troops they launched themselves in swarms against them, but having been everywhere repulse by gunfire, the Baskirs left a great number of dead on the ground.

The Memoirs of General Baron de Marbot

www.gutenberg.org

For the sake of entirety this should be included

An arrow hit to the right thigh (fired by Russia's Bashkir horse archers) at the Battle of Leipzig: 18 October 1813.

Marcellin Marbot - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[r16]

Spoiler :

a while back somewhere on the web some guy whom ı have heard off mentioned that once the Swedes used the F-14 as a yard stick . It is 1970s , the Russians are developing the Fulcrum/Flanker format and it is logical that a fighter with swing or variable wings might eventually be fielded . This is a time when the Swedes are widely known to be willing to let NATO tresspass in a war , Russians were planning to tresspass in their attacks against Norway ever since the 1950s . There might be Soviet Tomcats and they might dogfight well and they might come in numbers escorting other Russian jets . So , the Swedes studied new ways for their future programme that would eventually replace the Jaktviggen in the production lines in the 1990s . They take pride in having discovering the Cobra turn , more associated with Flankers decades later . This would have allowed a compact jet that might do impossible moves in the air to beat much larger planes in either slow or fast speeds . F-14 being a known identity and so on , Russians would be hard pressed to do better it and so on . Anyone here , are you offended with this paragraph ?

people were incensed over there . Some French(?) guy took the lead to attack , to have the post deleted . Because like you know , if you moderate things out , you can like make people never know it . The entire modern generation of canard fighters stem from this series of Swedish studies from 1972 to '74 . This was the first serious proposal or something . And USAF officers pointblank lied in an expensive series of tests that the next generation of air to air missiles would have negated the need and the likes of Phantoms would/could stay relevant for many more years . F-22/35 was the threshold one needed to cross if one really wanted to survive the dogfights of WW lll . Paris ? Paris does not want you think their masterpiece is just a variation of things the French did not invent .

though it was funny when the UAE declared they would not buy the 80 Rafales they had on order unless the owner of Telegram was not released . It was an impressive effort from the same posters that charged to show all that was fake news . Ummh , people might have noticed me along the way , wondering how many Rafales they would ever manage to sell me .

nobody bothers with r16 . Not even the Greek guy . So , this almost full page tp discredit me or whatever ? That it is clearly poor computer translation , made worse by repeated cycles that it is IMPOSSIBLE for me to think there is something truly wrong with donations of "free combat aircraft to a nation in dire need" . People of the CFC , you do not need to wonder . That thinking has already been done on your behalf .

this one clear ? Let us move on . When you can't even be a bot , you might be painted even lower .

these Asiatic barbarians ? Everything wrong with the Russian military tradition is because of them ... Nomadic horsemen reigned supreme for much of the known history . A good infantry force would beat the average raiders everytime . If it could ever catch them in the first place . The horsemen would disappear , only to attack the isolated parties . Or the supply lines . So that the unit on foot would eventually starve and be forced to turn back . To be massacred if careless or too much weakened .

russians solved this thousands years old military problem by giving every 10 soldiers a cart , to carry everything on it . No logistic lines . And 20 years on the line . If conscripted , this was basically the death penalty for the poor Russians and it was most unlikely for them to ever return to their villages . That's how they eventually took over all the ocean of grass and the steppes and the deserts and finally put an end to the horse menace that had threatened the West and the East . China upto 1911 or so was still controlled by "invaders" . Russians do not care for their units ambushed and destroyed . More will be found . Russians have no problems with warcrimes , they can always cite the Tatar Yoke as a justification , they will commit more warcrimes until the tribe of the year or the decade surrenders or is evicted into some realm yet not under Russian control or destroyed to the last single baby . Their troops get the death penalty by joining , their death will be remembered with idealization later on . Steamroller , will win eventually . Or the State falls and gets replaced by pretty much the same thing . The darkness in Asia the Russians protect the world from ? Much to the merriment of Americans and all ! Remember the toilet bowls the Russians had never seen ? Or they importing washing machines to steal the chips ? Means nothing to the Russians , even if they haven't fought horse mounted archers for a couple of centuries by now . That's their way . The only way they know they can reliably get done .

the strategic acumen of Joe Bidon will be long remembered with the thing that General Winter can not be a problem , if the invading is done by the locals ... Smart man , having read about Napoleon and Adolf .

uh , unhappy with history ? Coming to the thing . So , searching for things , ı saw some snippet that said the Russians banned blacksmithing in all their freshly conquered areas . Like , if the Bashkirs had bows and arrows , that's only because Russians would not allow them to have guns . Even fighting against deadly invaders . We see no laughter against Cossacks here , not just because they will be Ukranian inventions and the proper example of ever yearning for FREEDOM! The Cossacks have guns , to kill their Bashkir comrade in arms later on , if need be .

yuck . Too much talk . Let us have pictures . It is always the winter , cold and snow . As the biggest Army , the Grand Army discovered Hell could be really snow white in colour .


let us have summer then .



8th of August , naturally painted by some Russian , 5.eme Hussards or whatever is really not using the guns . Like because you have to reload it once you fire it and horses are like faster when they charge you and you quickly learn Asiatics will inevitably catch you if you turn it into an endurance test with your suberbly impressive very European charger . Oh-kay , a winter shot ...


despite the talk of charging everything with lunatic bravery , each and every Cavalryman knows how to run .

this is a period painting or whatever . Some say it is from Leipzig , a huge battle Napoleon lost , because among other things he lacked enough numbers of Cavalry . Most of which was destroyed in Russia , some unknown but possibly significant percentage by the Asiatics . Oh , this is Paris actually

hey , these are some descendants , having volunteered for the good side !

they will liberate their homeland when the next US Acministration gives them missiles or something ... Offensive ? Real offensive ?

Hmm , here is a flying in the air Russian , a dummy in the 2012 reenactment of Napoleon's bid .



this post is now safe ! History strangely claims he , Napoleon ı mean , assembled 600 000 soldiers to drive the barbarians of the North into the wilderness so that Russians could not interfere in the affairs of Europe for the next 25 years ... With that much , he should have settled , right ?

primitive bows against mighty French guns might not be exactly THE thing to say here , but anyhow ... How many Rafales are you going to sell me ?