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War or peace in this situation? [VAN]

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by jaafit, Apr 13, 2010.

  1. jaafit

    jaafit Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2004
    Messages:
    45
    Location:
    OR, USA
    This is the 7th Monarch game for me and having not won a single one of them, I figure I could use some advice at this point. I'm at a crossroad.

    I'm Arabia in 1600 and have just defended against a French invasion. His forces seem depleted and I managed to lose just one town improvement and ~10 units so I'm not in too bad of shape. I'm about even with everyone on the power graph except for France, who is behind in tech and not a concern of mine any longer.

    My concern is with the score leaders. With 7 AI in the game, I'm behind Hatshepsut, Huayna Capac, and Asoka, all of whom have a large amount of land. I'm a bit behind them in tech as well. Huayna is the most tempting military target being next to me and having two cities on my borders that are completely isolated from his mainland. I'm not good friends with anyone, now that Asoka left our Buddist faith.

    I had a nice run defending with my UU (camel archer) but cav is one tech away, so my UU glory days are basically over.

    I just got into Universities and Free Market is avail. Free Religion is coming in 4 turns. I'll likely make peace with France soon and I need to make a major decision now.

    Do I change my civics to war and attack Huayna or do I build these universities and aim for space?

    Save attached.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    22,385
    Location:
    UK
    Your game is far from perfect. Your capital is letting you down hugely!! Its 1600ad and you are only producing 36 or so science beakers. It lacks an academy. You have irrigated 2 plains when you could of been working 2 grasslands covered by forest that should of been chopped. Forest in your capitals BFC by 1600ad is not good.

    Your capital is certainly a great production site. Just should really have been fully cottaged where the forest is and have a few towns by now.

    Anjar I don't get. Size 6 with 6 irrigated plains. The city lacks any food resources. Putting national epic there will do nothing! It will struggle to ever make any great people. The city is costing you more than it makes in gold.

    Irrigating plains is next to pointless!! The city grows by one with no real benefit/gain. Meanwhile you have 6-7 grasslands elsewhere that could be cottaged but are under forest!!

    Same goes for Basra really. Beyong grabbing iron and marble the city had so many dead tiles the benefit outweighed the gain.

    Medina looks a good commerce city but again you have not cleared the forest and cottaged the grassland. I would of probably used this as a great people farm. Again you do need to look at great people farms. 3 great people by 1600ad is not great.

    I think you need to look at your early game use your workers better. Learn to set up a city with 1-2 scientists early on so you can build academies in your capital and bulb philosphy. Great people farms are key at higher levels.

    I have not been very positive but least i am honest. You did manage to build 11-12 cities and arid maps are not the easiest to play.

    Going forward you can still draft gunpowder units. With numbers and promoted units you might reach incas capital. You will struggle tech wise. Camels should be able to match longbows. Space is a bit dull go for the attack. :)

    you won't reach liberalism first. You are about 400-600 years late with this tech. :(
     
  3. h@@kon

    h@@kon Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2010
    Messages:
    38
    IMO a very good answer. I'm getting my first victory on prince now, learning a lot from answers like this.
     
  4. DampRain

    DampRain Prince

    Joined:
    May 1, 2009
    Messages:
    369
    Hi, since you said you just started playing monarch, I thought I'd direct you to

    TMIT's Lets play civ
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=360177

    If you have time to watch it I believe it would be a very useful teaching resource. Gumbolt seems to have given a detailed answer so I won't look at your save, unless you request it. It'd be hardly fair otherwise to post :p.

    But welcome to Monarch!
     
  5. jaafit

    jaafit Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2004
    Messages:
    45
    Location:
    OR, USA
    Thanks for the critique, Gumbolt. That was actually better than what I was looking for. I understand most of what you said (I'm especially aware now of the uselessness of my GPP city surrounded by plains).

    I'd just like to hear the reasoning behind your saying that irrigating plains is nearly pointless. At the outset, it looks like 1f is 1f no matter what. But I think the reasoning behind your position has something to do with specialization since a city on plains is not going to be very big no matter what you do?

    Thanks for the link, DampRain. Watching that now.
     
  6. Sporknife

    Sporknife Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2009
    Messages:
    82
    all you get from plains farms is 1h (maybe 1c if it's riverside), because the 2f it produces are used up by the citizen that works it. Therefor, plains farms are horribly pointless.
     
  7. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    22,385
    Location:
    UK
    Exactly!!! I try not to settle cities burdened with lots of plains. plains can be useful for workshops with irrigated grasslands later on. Production later on is good.
     
  8. ICNP

    ICNP The Third Superpower

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2007
    Messages:
    772
    Location:
    Missile Silo
    I feel like Plains tiles should be made better. As it is now, they get dominated by grassland hills.

    Ahhhh, the thought to of a few Grassland riverside tiles and a some hills. Throw in a Corn and some Iron... And maybe some Gold/Silver/Gems... Now that's a capitol!
     
  9. jaafit

    jaafit Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2004
    Messages:
    45
    Location:
    OR, USA
    Ok I'm still not seeing the reason. I get that a plains tile is worse than a grassland tile. What I'm trying to dissect is the choice between a farm and a workshop. Why put a workshop on plains and a farm on grassland? They both do the same thing to both tiles.
     
  10. Lynxx

    Lynxx Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2006
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    97
    Just a quick comment to this. Try to emphasize what the tile is inherently good at. In this case grassland = food and plains = hammers. This way you get "specialized tiles" You can work mainly farmed grassland for food and workshoped plains for production. Of course there are more improvements and tiles available, but for simplicity I left them out of the argument. Begin playing with this in mind and you will soon see the benefits and can start to develop a far deeper feeling of what tiles need what improvement that I could ever explain to you in a post on this forum. Good luck.
     
  11. mariogreymist

    mariogreymist Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
    Messages:
    2,201
    Putting workshops on grassland can make sense, but only if a 1:food:3:hammers: tile is superior to your city's output than a 4:hammers: tile. (assuming you have either guilds or chemistry) Generally speaking, this is a rare instance. It's most common if you are running castes and at your happy cap and need a 1:food: tile to create a static growth situation and you don't have a grassland mine to work.

    If you're in slavery, and have a population below ten and a forge & granary, the strange truth is you generate more :hammers: by working a farm on the grassland than you can working a workshop on either kind of tile. In fact, before guilds/chemistry, workshops only ever make sense when running the castes civic, and are marginal improvements at best. Only after you have both guilds and chemistry can a castes workshop outperform a slavery farm in a small city in terms of :hammers: production.

    My general early game rule for production cities: If in slavery with a small population, make :food:. If in castes or with a high population (over 10) make :hammers:. If in doubt, make :food:.
     
  12. jaafit

    jaafit Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2004
    Messages:
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    Location:
    OR, USA
    One more question remains from this game.

    I won it (my first Monarch win :king:) and am happy about that. It was a race between me getting 64% of the land and Egypt building the SS. When I won in '96 Egypt had just 2 SS parts remaining. I kept playing just to see how close the game was. Egypt finished the SS in 2017! Those last 2 parts took her 21 years! Is that unusual?

    Now one factor may have been me building The Manhattan Project which led her to build SDI and likely some bomb shelters. But even with that, I would think the last 2 parts shouldn't have taken her that long. Does the AI not try as hard after they've lost?

    EDIT: I was never at war with her. She was the 2nd-strongest so I kept her as my friend in the Hindu faith and went after the other civs instead.
     

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