War weariness question

[Bast]

Okay this almost killed me. Playing as Pericles on prince, I went for space race victory. The turn I launched the spaceship the moment Joao (#1 military and neighbour who was pleased btw) declared war on me.

Well it's fine. I can put up a defence for another 13 turns - spaceship will get there with 100% success rate.

Until a few turns later all my major cities were reduced to this. See attachment.

+32 for war weariness? That's ridiculous for a war that I did not start and one where I sent no troops outside of my territory. And one where I cannot stop.

As you can see. All the citizens stopped working. Is this normal?

I don't think that's realistic. What if a country invades us we all stop working and revolt against our government who's not to blame and who's only spending on military to keep us protected? Where's the logic? Someone tell me this isn't normal.

Anyway, I won that game. My second game and first WIN on prince. YEAH!! 1970 victory with 12535 points - Charlemagne title. Ironic as I rushed and took out Charlemagne early in the game.

 

[uat2d]

i agree with you, it's too much war weariness, but you're lucky he isn't fomenting unhappiness in your cities!!!


And you have the same religion he has, and that's increasing the even more!!!

Although he also has to deal with , it's too much war weariness...

 

[Bast]

i agree with you, it's too much war weariness, but you're lucky he isn't fomenting unhappiness in your cities!!!


And you have the same religion he has, and that's increasing the even more!!!

Although he also has to deal with , it's too much war weariness...

I don't care what he has to deal with. I played the game fair and I've won it already at that point. But I would've liked to finish with normal looking cities instead of starving rioting messes.

The thing that pisses me off is that it doesn't make sense.

+32 ??? That's way too much. If I were the aggressor fine. But I'm not.

Have people talked about this? Like does it bother anyone else? Any solutions?

I had the Cristo Redentor too and tried switching to all types of civics. No results.

If this is the norm. I'm not sure if I want to play Prince anymore.

 

[Bast]

I should mention that he had the Statue of Zeus but none of my troops even stepped foot on his territory so should that matter? I did nuke him though.

If this is because of the Statue of Zeus, I think I've just found a new favourite wonder.

 

[KMadCandy]

grats on your win!

war is hell, so is war weariness. this thread originally started in vanilla days, but afaik the general mechanics behind it are still true in BtS.

+32 for war weariness? That's ridiculous for a war that I did not start and one where I sent no troops outside of my territory. And one where I cannot stop.

i wish i could tell you it's not normal. that number does sound awfully high to me if you never fought on tiles of somebody else's culture. staying in your borders keeps it much lower than going on offense, that article explains all that stuff.

for late-game wars you really want to know Fascism. you want to beat the other guys to it, it comes with a free great general . it lets you build Mt. Rushmore, the national wonder that cuts all your WW by 25%. it lets you run the Police State civic, that cuts WW in half, and gives you a military production bonus. Constitution lets you build jails, 25% less WW in that city.

if you're in Police State, and have Mt. Rushmore built, then any city with a jail has nobody from WW. the game keeps track of what your WW is, and if you change out of PS, or somebody razes your Mt. Rushmore or something, you have huge problems again of course. but if and when you can keep PS up and have that infrastructure set up, war is a lot easier!

 

[KMadCandy]

yes, SoZ counts everywhere, not just for fights in his borders.

and nuking is a buster. according to that article, "You launch a nuke=+12 (WW regardless of culture)". for comparison, if you win an attack of your spearman vs. his tank and you win, you get +1 WW. so 12 is a lot! shame on you *giggle*

"I had the Cristo Redentor too and tried switching to all types of civics. No results." try Police State again. it won't make the WW go away all by itself, you need the other two things i mentioned, but PS will help you. it's possible to have WW so bad that even in PS you can't get anything done tho.

about SoZ: you accumulate more WW while you fight a guy who owns it of course. when you go capture it, you stop accumulating the "bonus extra WW" but the bonus you already got from having to fight it doesn't disappear. it has to decay like normal WW. so if you're fighting somebody that has SoZ, you want to go take or raze that city ASAP.

 

[Bast]

grats on your win!

war is hell, so is war weariness. this thread originally started in vanilla days, but afaik the general mechanics behind it are still true in BtS.



i wish i could tell you it's not normal. that number does sound awfully high to me if you never fought on tiles of somebody else's culture. staying in your borders keeps it much lower than going on offense, that article explains all that stuff.

for late-game wars you really want to know Fascism. you want to beat the other guys to it, it comes with a free great general . it lets you build Mt. Rushmore, the national wonder that cuts all your WW by 25%. it lets you run the Police State civic, that cuts WW in half, and gives you a military production bonus. Constitution lets you build jails.

if you're in Police State, and have Mt. Rushmore built, then any city with a jail has nobody from WW. the game keeps track of what your WW is, and if you change out of PS, or somebody razes your Mt. Rushmore or something, you have huge problems again of course. but if and when you can keep PS up and have that infrastructure set up, war is a lot easier!

No but the point is I didn't GO TO WAR. I sat all my troops in my cities and defended.

Why would I go to war, my spaceship is already half way there and Joao hasn't even half completed his.

But I did run police state and had jails up. I don't have Mt Rushmore but I really don't think that's going to help with +32 WW.

There seems to be something wrong here.

I've won domination and conquest victories on Noble so I know how to deal with WW.

But this just seems wrong. Is it the difficulty level?

I have a save. Maybe I'll go in and worldbuilder Mt Rushmore. I can't see it making that big a difference.

 

[Bast]

yes, SoZ counts everywhere, not just for fights in his borders.

and nuking is a buster. according to that article, "You launch a nuke=+12 (WW regardless of culture)". for comparison, if you win an attack of your spearman vs. his tank and you win, you get +1 WW. so 12 is a lot! shame on you *giggle*

"I had the Cristo Redentor too and tried switching to all types of civics. No results." try Police State again. it won't make the WW go away all by itself, you need the other two things i mentioned, but PS will help you. it's possible to have WW so bad that even in PS you can't get anything done tho.

about SoZ: you accumulate more WW while you fight a guy who owns it of course. when you go capture it, you stop accumulating the "bonus extra WW" but the bonus you already got from having to fight it doesn't disappear. it has to decay like normal WW. so if you're fighting somebody that has SoZ, you want to go take or raze that city ASAP.

Oh ok it must be the nukes then. Well I thought why not they were sitting there and he did start it.

Okay, it must be the SoZ then. Looks like it's a must-build then.

I still think war weariniess should be less for defensive wars.

 

[KMadCandy]

how many nukes did you use? if you have 32 WW left while getting a 75% discount running police state and having a jail, and you never fought outside your borders, that means you used like 90 gazillion nukes it sounds like to me?

WW doesn't factor in who started it. it does factor in where the fights are, which is kind of a way to make WW matter less for defensive wars, but that doesn't come into it for nukes.

WW increases some by difficulty but not +32 with 75% discount, no.

Oh ok it must be the nukes then. Well I thought why not they were sitting there and he did start it.

*giggle* i probably would have too. i was teasing when i said it's a , i meant as far as trying to avoid WW. sometimes it's exactly what the AI deserves!

and you did win

 

[Bast]

I didn't use that many. About 5 I think.

WW doesn't factor in who started it.

That seems really silly to me. Probably because in this situation it just didn't make sense to me. I really hope they look into this because it doesn't make sense in real life. Yes, we're invaded so let's strike against our government. If anything it should make people even more nationalistic and willing to fight.

I've played games on Noble going for domination without even adopting Police state once. Not even once because I didn't need to. So this is a bit of a shock for me.

 

[KMadCandy]

a big part of it was SoZ. if you have a save of a game where you can play with WB and feel like experimenting, mess around with it. you can't just take it away from him in that game and see yours go down, since you've already accumulated the extra, but it would stop climbing higher so fast.

but you can watch his WW on the diplo screen, and after you've seen how it moves for a turn or three then give yourself your own statue, see how he likes that. you should see his numbers jump a lot more. i don't know of a way to see your own total WW score like we see for the AI, so the best experiment i can think of really is to watch him.

it's really painful to be on the wrong side of that thing, at least from what i hear. i've built it or avoided war with the guy who did build it in all my BtS games so far. you story convinces me even more that i need to be thankful and hope that continues! /knockwood.

i was seeing WW effects in action last night. i had CR, so between turns i was in PS/mt rushmore/jail status with no WW of course. but during the turns i'd sometimes swap to US to buy something. the times i didn't remember to increase my culture slider before i did that, oops! had to go back and make sure the people were on the tiles they were supposed to be on when they settled back down. but with that combo i had no faces from WW and it was lovely!

 

[Bast]

a big part of it was SoZ. if you have a save of a game where you can play with WB and feel like experimenting, mess around with it. you can't just take it away from him in that game and see yours go down, since you've already accumulated the extra, but it would stop climbing higher so fast.

but you can watch his WW on the diplo screen, and after you've seen how it moves for a turn or three then give yourself your own statue, see how he likes that. you should see his numbers jump a lot more. i don't know of a way to see your own total WW score like we see for the AI, so the best experiment i can think of really is to watch him.

it's really painful to be on the wrong side of that thing, at least from what i hear. i've built it or avoided war with the guy who did build it in all my BtS games so far. you story convinces me even more that i need to be thankful and hope that continues! /knockwood.

Thanks. I always save my final turns so I'll visit this later but for now I'm going to bask in the glory of Princedom. I have finally become a Prince of the Blood.

Actually come to think of it, if I intend to warmonger I do build the Statue of Zeus in BTS always. I guess this is a lesson that I either need to build it even if I want a peaceful path or that depending on the person who gets it I should get into an alliance of sorts with them.

 

[uat2d]

try police state, build the Mount Rushmore, build jails in every city and conquer is SoZ, then watch the disappear in your cities and show up on his


OFF-TOPIC: why does everyone says negative things about Joao; that he backstabs a lot and is a warmonger; he never attacked me...

 

[KrikkitTwo]

A few points on WW points you get them whenever battles take place in a tile that has more of Anyone elses culture (battles include nuke strikes)

so if some of the area he was attacking you in was some area that a Third party had owned, until you took it then you would get WW there.

nukes give a LOT of WW, as does conquering cities.

 

[Bast]

A few points on WW points you get them whenever battles take place in a tile that has more of Anyone elses culture (battles include nuke strikes)

so if some of the area he was attacking you in was some area that a Third party had owned, until you took it then you would get WW there.

nukes give a LOT of WW, as does conquering cities.

That could be it as well. I actually rarely nuke anyone. I think this is the first time in BTS that I've done it. So that could be it. I'm going to play back an old save and I'll just won't do anything after launching my spaceship. I'll just leave my units in cities and see how the WW goes.

 

[Bast]

I also found it funny and predictable that Joao would declare war on the turn I launched my spaceship when I was going to win. He had no chance of launching his. It just seems so desperate. Couldn't he have lost with magnanimity?