War Weariness Questions

[SuedecivIII]

Hey, I'm making a guide on (among other things) war weariness. Wanted to clear up some details so that I don't put out any wrong info.

Primary source is this classic thread: https://www.civfanatics.com/civ3/strategy/game-mechanics/how-does-war-weariness-work/

1) Does your city getting flipped count as losing a city towards your counter?
2) It says you lose WW points if there are no enemy units inside your territory and you have no units in the enemy's territory. Does this apply even in a war? That is to say, does your WW tick down during a war if you don't have units in each other's land?
3) How does this work with multiple civs? It says you can have multiple war happinesses at once, which matches my experience. But you can't get like, 300% of your city's population in WW if you're at level 4 with multiple enemies, can you? If no, then how does it work? Does it assign you the WW level of the civ you have the highest score with? Or does it add together the scores of all the civs your at war with, but just not exceeding the cap of level 4?

 

[justanick]

1) Does your city getting flipped count as losing a city towards your counter?

As far as i can tell no. The loss via military means is meant.

2) It says you lose WW points if there are no enemy units inside your territory and you have no units in the enemy's territory. Does this apply even in a war? That is to say, does your WW tick down during a war if you don't have units in each other's land?

Yes, very much indeed.

The other restrictions do apply. It is only effective while ww points are 31 or higher and it is only -1 per turn.

I am however not convinced that this is the only way to lose ww points during war. I deem it possible, that the article is missing out some crucial special cases like multiplayer or extra negative ww points per turn from Universal Sufferage.

3) How does this work with multiple civs? It says you can have multiple war happinesses at once, which matches my experience. But you can't get like, 300% of your city's population in WW if you're at level 4 with multiple enemies, can you?

I suspect it is limited to 100%, same as war weariness. You cannot total more than 100% even if you have 61+ ww points each in several wars.

If no, then how does it work? Does it assign you the WW level of the civ you have the highest score with? Or does it add together the scores of all the civs your at war with, but just not exceeding the cap of level 4?

ww points are calculated separately for each other civ. That is firm knowledge. Then the ww level is calculated from those points.

What happens next is unclear. I suspect it is added together first and capped second. But the exact mechanic is unclear. Are 4 times 25% 100%, or are those 25% calculated separately? This would lead to no war waeriness in size 3 towns due to rounding. The article suggest that it is added first, rounded second and capped third. -1 from Universal Sufferage would apply before capping. The article also suggest that the -25% from police stations is subtracted once in total and not once per civ, but it does not seem 100% clear.

If you want to be sure further research may be needed and those situations with multible wars at the same time are not very convenient to properly test out.

It really is a matter of economics. While we may not know how exactly it works we know well enough what to avoid and what does not require to be avoided. The strategic implications are reasonably clear, the exact mechanics may not.

 

[SuedecivIII]

Thanks a ton!

 

[Lanzelot]

And WW in multiplayer is a completely different thing, as there seem to be a few crucial bugs. For example, I noticed in several PBEM games in which I participated, that the WW points are not added to the player's account, who suffered them, but to the player's account, who is later in the turn order...

We had one extreme example, a 4-Player PBEM, where A (position 4 in the roster) was leading a very successful war against B (1 or 2 in the roster), taking half a dozen of B's cities in just a few turns. So one would expect that B's war weariness would be really bad, approaching level 4. But nothing of the kind, it was A's war weariness, which went through the roof so badly that their economy collapsed, even though they had lost only a handful of units so far...

So the following statement by Oystein must be wrong, when it gets to human - human battles:

There is a bug for these penalties. For a human-AI battle, the AI gets the same penalty as the human (he gets penalty for taking human cities, but not for losing his own). For an AI-AI war both gets the penalty the first AI should have. There seems to be no problem with human-human battles.

Or he was talking about the first multi-player modus introduced with PtW? For C3C, the MP modus was completely overhauled, and it could be that the bug I described, was introduced only in C3C. (Or he was testing simultaneous MP, while the mechanics are broken only in PBEM & Hotseat?)
In any case, in PBEM (and Hotseat, since afaik it uses the same mechanics as PBEM), the player who is further down in the roster, gets the penalty for both players... which explains why A hit level 4 so quickly in that PBEM war, while B was still enjoying war happiness after losing half their empire...