WAR with Germany Part II

[Oldbus]

Dear All,

There is a discussion about a ceasefire already in progress and we have removed the Germans from our soil. I think we are entering a new phase of the war, and to reflect this, I've moved the war discussion here...

 

[Oldbus]

Aims of the war?

I think we need to decide what our aim is in this war. Here are some possible aims along with ideas on what each option might cost/benefit us. Please feel free to post more ideas and to question my assumptions. The sooner we can work this out, the sooner we can start to create more detailed plans.

• Removal of Germans from our soil
  We've already acheived this, so we would look to turn the ceasefire into a permanent peace treaty. I think we might look for a few more defenders in case Bismarck decides he doesn't want to keep the peace (and don't forget, if our power rating falls too low again, we are likely to be re-invaded)
  
• Capture/Raze Dortmund (city by lake)
  Dortmund is fairly lightly guarded (though it has walls) and we can cut it off from reinforcements while using hills to fortify our troops. Hamburg is too deep in the forest to make it easy to get troops to battle and Berlin (see below) is more heavily guarded.
  
  There is probably a good reason for Dortmund being lightly defended - it is not a terribly useful city. Long-term is might pay for itself (maybe...) and it could be a production city, but it would likely plunge our economy deeper in the red, which is why I've suggested razing it. Plunder and looting =
  
• Capture Berlin
  This is the biggy and would cause Bismarck some long-term problems I'm sure. However, it is well defended (Bismarck has got some longbows with good promotions and defensive bonuses). If we are going to take Berlin it will be very expensive.
  
  We will need a lot of cats, some defence for those cats and then plenty of attackers to follow those cats in and finish it. Also, remember that even though we have been cranking out units as fast as we can for at least 15 turns, Bismarck is still pulling away from us on the power graph. He can throw more troops at this than we can and we can't surround Berlin.
  
  If we take this option, we need to be very sure we want to stick with it all the way - otherwise we waste a lot of production effort. On the bonus side, Berlin may be able to make a postive contribution to Licentia (even if it doesn't make a huge amount of money) and the troops we have are costing us.
  
• Wipe Germany from the map
  Err...yeah...maybe...

 

[Oldbus]

My own view at the moment is we should go for Berlin. It will be hard, but it could make a real difference to the game.

One thing to watch is that we keep good relations with Peter. Even if we can't induce him to go back into the war, we must prevent him from siding with Bismarck.

Having said we need a big military unit push, I think once the horse archer completes in Mic Gate, it should build a couple of caravels to explore the world. I doubt we'll be the first to circumnavigate, but it would be nice to know what is out there.

 

[GeorgeOP]

The Peter argument should go to the SoS, but we probably need to gift him something. He signed a Peace Treaty, which guarantees peace for 10 turns. Berlin can use those ten turns to woo Peter into declaring against us.

And we are not at Peace, nor do we have a Cease Fire with Germany. We are only discussing whether we should do that at this point. (Your arguments make it sound like we already have a CF and I wanted to clear that up)

We also already have 5 Cats within 3 turns of Att 1. Is that enough, or will we need more?

 

[robboo]

5 cats bombarding will drop it 25 to 50% right? IF you suicide all 5 I figure we need 1 "equal" unit per unit in the city with a few extra.

Any cat experts?

 

[GeorgeOP]

We can spend a couple of turns to bombard Berlin down to 0% and then suicide all 5. That should soften it up enough. I'm assuming that after we take Berlin we declare peace, since we would have no Cats left.

 

[ice2k4]

Is it possible to raze dortmund and while doing it produce a great amount of units to take Berlin. I mean, that would put Bismark out of the game pretty much.

 

[Oldbus]

And we are not at Peace, nor do we have a Cease Fire with Germany. We are only discussing whether we should do that at this point. (Your arguments make it sound like we already have a CF and I wanted to clear that up)

I think I did say this in a rather muddled way, but thanks for making it explicit.

 

[Oldbus]

Is it possible to raze dortmund and while doing it produce a great amount of units to take Berlin. I mean, that would put Bismark out of the game pretty much.

I would rather go for Berlin first and if we get luck and look like we'll end up with a lot of units we'd rather not pay the support costs for, then use them up on Dortmund.

If we go for Dortmund and get bad luck ,we might struggle to have enough units to take Berlin, given the rate Bismarck can churn them out.

 

[Oldbus]

It looks like we might not go for the ceasefire, so I'll have a think about some plans for that. I don't thnk it is a problem.

The Atlas has been updated to the latest information.

 

[robboo]

We could pillage around Dortmund..relaitively safely. We could take that city...but if we raze it Bismark will get extra mad adn not conceed peace. Ater isolating Dormund we start working on Berlin. That would give you a bit longer to get some troops south. IF you have a feeling you wont lose many troops around Berlin while pillaging..do that we just dont want to lose troops for a farm or road...

 

[ice2k4]

I would rather go for Berlin first and if we get luck and look like we'll end up with a lot of units we'd rather not pay the support costs for, then use them up on Dortmund.

If we go for Dortmund and get bad luck ,we might struggle to have enough units to take Berlin, given the rate Bismarck can churn them out.

Agreed, I didn't mean it in any particular order, but Berlin then Dortmund seems best.

We could pillage around Dortmund..relaitively safely. We could take that city...but if we raze it Bismark will get extra mad adn not conceed peace. Ater isolating Dormund we start working on Berlin. That would give you a bit longer to get some troops south. IF you have a feeling you wont lose many troops around Berlin while pillaging..do that we just dont want to lose troops for a farm or road...

Well I think that now is the time to pick our friends and foes. The only reason I could see for not wanting to piss off Bismark is if we are looking to found Islam, and spread it through our continent rapidly, which means we would need to acquire an open borders agreement.

 

[dutchfire]

Who cares about pissing off Bismarck? We should meet new friends anyway if we want to survive.

 

[ice2k4]

Well we shouldnt care, unless of course we want to found islam, and spread it to our continent rapidly. Which we would need to be on Bismark's good enough side to get an open borders.

 

[Chieftess]

Judging from the recent turnchat, you are building more spears, aren't you? If they're building a lot of horses, use more spears, and don't defend with cats. Horses eat cats, but spears eat horses.

 

[Oldbus]

We're going to have to. We're a long way short of what we need though.

 

[Chieftess]

And by the time you do, it'll be time for pikemen.... (and knights)

 

[Oldbus]

Yup, and we don't have any money to do upgrades...