War with Shaka or Freddy???

[Wez]

Well here's the thing im playing on prince (first game at this level) as Julius Ceasar on a huge big + small map with large islands and random everything else. I seem to be on a continent with Shaka, Freddy, Kubli Khan and some native amercan bloke ive never seen before Geronimo i think.

Its 10ad and to get access to iron for my preatorions i had to build a city about five or six tiles away from Rome as freddy was just about to settle there himself, its not a very good place for a city but it was the only way i could get iron as Rome was nowhere near expanding and im not into using saves to try a different approach i just play the hand im dealt.

One saving grace was i did manage to build the oracle and i choose metal casting as my free tech im now researching mathamatics as there are plenty of forests and jungles (not sure if you get hammers for jungles) im on about the same score as Shaka and we are 3rd and fourth we have open borders and he has three cities where as i have 4, only one of which is on the coast.

I reckon i will have to go to war with Shaka as last time i played him he just vassalised everyone and ended up dominating just about everything my worry is that Freddy might turn on me while im at war with Shaka and i also need to crank out lots of praetorians before Shaka gets macemen but then im thinking maybe it would just be easier to go war with freddie although he is top of the tree at the moment and he does have the great wall whereas Shaka has no world wonders mmmmmmmmm.

I realise it would have been a lot simpler to just post a save so you can see for yourselves but im in work at the mo. So on the basis of the info i have provided would you go for Shaka while you can or freddie ??? i should also add that my cultural borders are now touching freddies whereas Shaka's are about eight tiles away. All advice welcome or critisism (spelling is not my strong point) for being a t*t and not posting a save

 

[Refar]

Jungles give you no Hammers. Math is cool anyway...

Go for Shakinator. Freddy is quite reasonable - he values peace highly and has only moderate different religion craziness... Unless you left your bakyard really-really soft, or make him very , he should not backtab you....

A possibility would be also - to bribe hime into Shaka war as well - to keep him busy, and maybe help you own campain.
Alternatively to make a deal with him - for example selling a Ressource for some gold per turn - this will give 10 turns of guaranteed peace.

 

[JujuLautre]

Alternatively to make a deal with him - for example selling a Ressource for some gold per turn - this will give 10 turns of guaranteed peace.

Doesn't work this way. A 10 turn peace treaty is only declared if a party asks for something 5tech, gold, ressource...) and the other party gives in.

 

[Refar]

Doesn't work this way. A 10 turn peace treaty is only declared if a party asks for something 5tech, gold, ressource...) and the other party gives in.

I was under the impression it does - i.e. in the case of ressource/gpt trades, as those can not be canceled for 10 turns.... But now when you say it, perhaps i need to check again...

Asking him for 10 gold - as JujuLautre poited out - would be a possibility as well - if you are at good enought relations.... (If you ask for a Favor you dont get -1 demerit, while asking for tribut will give "Arrogant demand")

 

[Wez]

Hmm thanks fellas Freddy is currently pleased with me and a 10 turn peace treaty would be handy, it would be interesting to know if i can obtain this by selling him a resource.

Yes i do think Shaka is the way to go though while i still can and ive had Freddy as neighbour before without any dramas.

 

[Lil_Yospeck]

Doesn't work this way. A 10 turn peace treaty is only declared if a party asks for something 5tech, gold, ressource...) and the other party gives in.

It does work. In my current game I do this with Caeser to stop him from punching my head in when Im fighting Hammbari. After 10 turns it comes up saying 'Peace Treaty Cancelled' or whatever you get when the 10 turn timer ends.

It doesn't work if you simlpy gift something to the AI.

 

[Wheem]

Giving a gift will get you the 10 turn peace treaty; if you significantly out-tech the AI, giving them an older, unimportant technology can get you that guarantee. Frederick probably won't backstab you though, as long as your relations are pretty good.

Shaka is one of the top few warmongers in the game, though, and you will definitely end up in a war with him at some point. The only way I've ever found to guarantee peace with Shaka for a prolonged period of time, is to be far away from him, and be much more powerful (even then, he's attacked me sometimes).

Edit: I think the poster above me is correct; and giving a gift will not get you the 10 turn peace treaty (but requesting and successfully getting a gift should).

 

[pfo]

Go for Shaka, he's not reliable. Only the 10 turn peace treaty prevents him from attacking you, and only for 10 turns. Freddy is quite reasonable, so long as you don't leave yourself wide open. Shaka tends to be dumb too, with inadequate forces that are outdated (Monty is too, even more so).

 

[Wez]

Ok cheers Fellas i had a few problems with partisans but this was solved in the below thread

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=6517796#post6517796

Shaka has left a forest next to his capital so im gonna try and get my stack to that tile after taking one city on the way.

Cheers for the help

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Watch out for Shaka though, he builds a huge amount of troops. Even if you beat him and get a peace treaty, chances are he will rebuild a huge stack and DoW agan pretty soon, so be prepared if you don't wipe him out. Don't think that it is OK to start building infrastructure after getting the peace treaty and garrisoning with a few troops.

My last game (on monarch), Shaka DoW'd 4 times in total, I was unprepared for the first so lost 2 cities and had to fight hard to get them back, then get peace (he wanted a military tech for it but I fobbed him off with Divine Right). I garrisoned 5 rifles, some medic spears, and some cats in the cities, but next DoW he attacked with a huge stack of something like 20-30 cuirassiers. I won that war in the end, but he took the city before I could take it back (it was 4 turns away from building ironworks as well!), so be warned.

I think Shaka AI plays one of the strongest games out of all the civs and leaders.