War with Spaniards

[Maga_R]

I don't think this is declaring on a whim at all. The whole time the plan was to get 10 turns peace to settle the Marble, complete Taj, and have a peaceful GA. We have accomplished that, so now the plan was to go back into war mode. We have entered war mode this turn, so the Spaniards are going to figure out what's what whether we DOW them or not. Better to capture a Worker, steal a forest, and grab a great defensive position before they have a chance to react, imho.

Spaniards have ended turn so we are good to play and DOW anytime now if we decide to go this way.

But 5 hours before end of our in-game peace, we still wanted to keep them calm?

Also, in 5 hours our forced peace with Spaniards is over. Please, lets send them the message so they have what to read or discuss and give us some more time.

 

[Caledorn]

It would be disastrous if RB declared war on us at the same time as we have a war with SpAp, so let's hope they don't do a DP or that the concerns about RB using the marble as an excuse to break the NAP does not come true.. I know I am being over cautious now, but I would prefer the marble thing to be settled first at the least..

 

[2metraninja]

After 2 days of consulting on chats, I am now convinced we must wait with the declaration.

Even, if we will wait with the declaration, we can spare another 2 turns to tech Theocracy and use it for producing Shock knights and double-hill LBs and xbows from the 4 barracks we have and pump 2xp units from all other our cities.

 

[2metraninja]

I know the sentiments were warring and many of you wanted to see this baby rolling, but I hope you will like it even more in few turns when we hit the Spaniards like hot hammer hits butter.

 

[Sommerswerd]

when we hit the Spaniards like hot hammer hits butter.

Oh man that was a good one! I haven't heard such since the "wiping of the sexy AMAZON buttocks

 

[2metraninja]

Hahah, yeah... Well, the sexy AMAZON buttocks were way better hahah...

And this whole situation is hilarious in another sense too. Usually it is me who have to calm your always ready for fight spirit, Sommers, now it is you who is the cautious and calm one.

 

[YossarianLives]

But, but, but...I want MOAR BLOOD.

As soon as bistrita posted he was against it, I knew that waiting was the right call. 6 more turns isn't too bad, I'm looking forward to watching our hot hammer get forged.

 

[cav scout]

Yeah, the peace was only 10 a turn break for us to accomplish some goals and get set up to continue the fight. The Spaniards almost certainly know that we will be attacking them again.

They quickly realized after their initial DoW that they had made a horrible mistake. Hence the message about their leader being crazy. Once they got our measure they realized they were doomed.

They did make a smart move by going for the cease fire and trying to get us to change targets. This was pretty much their only chance to avoid destruction since no other team is interested in coming to their rescue. But unfortunately for them this just doesn't work for us. So now they must die.

 

[bistrita]

Where are our Ha?,look how spaniards moved theyr cats:

 

[Maga_R]

Where are our Ha?,look how spaniards moved theyr cats:

Does it look like they are preparing to DoW us again?

 

[2metraninja]

Does it look like they are preparing to DoW us again?

Ether it is the case, or they are moving army to show muscles and maybe influence our opinion on them as good war ally.

Or, in the less likely scenario in my opinion, they are moving army to prepare for the possible our attack, realizing lately that our forced peace is over and reading our last message where we generally refuse them as allies and mock them a little bit.

 

[Maga_R]

reading our last message where we generally refuse them as allies and mock them a little bit.

So you think they hated my message so much as to DoW us for that? Did not mean to mock them at all, just thought that sending such silly messages back and forth was their idea of fun. It was actually beginning to grow on me :-( Pity.

 

[2metraninja]

Now I think it does not mattered much what is written in the message really. It was like the blue and red pill Neo had to choose. It was a symbol. Do we take them as wardogs or we insist on destroying them.

 

[2metraninja]

Those are some chats we had with Bistrita and there are a lot of food for thoughts. Tactic, strategy, diplomacy too, but I think it fits best here because the main thing to decide now is tech path, civics and waging the war with Spaniards.

Bistrita: just logged in game
they moved their cats
in the forest
2 south of vaakdukuza
Bistrita: you think we should react?
they cant attack nothing
if we had knights ready this would have been a perfect turn
to kill those
2metraninja: the forest I wanted we to occupy?
ah, south
I dont know, what this means? why they move catapults to the borders?
Bistrita: dont know
if we would had 7-8 ha
no cats left
1 axe guarding
i hope they decide to keep them there
if we kill cats
will be run-over
2metraninja: they dont have that many cats
and it seems they are scattered
Bistrita: yep
2metraninja: so I think it will be easy job anyway
Bistrita: well with knights maces
cats not that scary
2metraninja: yes
and with xbows even more
Bistrita: yes
and if they mismanage units
2metraninja: str 3 xbow is still good vs axes
Bistrita: will be a slaughter
right now we could kill all cats
Bistrita: if units were in position
man we can finish
guilds in2
2metraninja: yes
Bistrita: you sure we want
2metraninja: and have knights in 3
Bistrita: teo?
2metraninja: what about my idea of finishing Theo first and start with slaving the cheaper units first?
will speed up a bit the whole thing
if we will have enough research power to finish guilds without the caste specialists
Bistrita: well after
teo
we need 3 turns for guilds
its near impossible in 2
2metraninja: I was afraid of that
Bistrita: well i told you exactly that
2metraninja: lets do it the right way
Bistrita: nothing different
2metraninja: yes, I know
so 3 turns for guilds
we can still whip other things?
Bistrita: yes 2 at max research
2metraninja: before guilds
Bistrita: and one at break even
2metraninja: or at least start 2 turns before guilds
Bistrita: maybe just before last turn
2metraninja: but we dont have money for 2 turns at max
Bistrita: well we run this turn
and finish
2metraninja: yes
Bistrita: teo from overflow
we will need those specialist at least 1 turn more
beside this one
so we can covert the turn before getting guilds
wins a turn like that
2metraninja: ok
but how much whips we will do?
1 for LB/xbow
Bistrita: 3 at least for city
2metraninja: and one for knight?
why 3?
more knights?
Bistrita: 2 knights
yes
2metraninja: thats ok then
Bistrita: if they do some mistake
war will end very fast
2metraninja: we must start with whips of slow units first
Bistrita: yes
that makes a lot of sense
they are moving slower
2metraninja: also, the slower are low on hammers
90 hammers for knight
with PS and forge
2 pop whip
Bistrita: yes
i was thinking
2metraninja: for the smaller things even less
1 pop
what
Bistrita: better get guilds and forget nationalism
and convert to vassalage
2metraninja: you want to skip 490 hammers?
Bistrita: and 21 unhappy
2metraninja: 21 unhappy in cities size 2-3
after all the whips
Bistrita: thats the beauty with police state will not end up that little
2metraninja: 2+2+1 at least
so, 8-5
Bistrita: we have some forest in Bono too
2metraninja: 9-5
Bistrita: man if they do that with cats we prepared that hard for nothing
i already start feel sorry
ha maces were well enough
2metraninja: what if I make simulation and we see drafts are not that bad?

yes, most probably will be overkill
Bistrita: if we kill cats they cant do nothing man
2metraninja: well, they will whip 3-4-5 others
Bistrita: until get togheder
and few will do very low damage
cats need to be togheder when you atacked by cavalry
2metraninja: had no time to log in tonight
how much cats they have there?
Bistrita: 7
2metraninja: 7 :-o
wow
what the fuсk is that?
Bistrita: dont know
guarded by 1 axe
if we had 7 Ha
bye cats
2metraninja: yes
HAs are cool

so they have 9 cats
2 in the south and 7 north

2metraninja: is it the first turn we tech Theo? all the dark green is from OF, right?
Bistrita: yes
2metraninja: is it possible they decided to go in blaze of glory trying to raze one of our cities at least?
and to prepare attack?
Bistrita: from theyr pozitioning
its playing zone defence
but still we should move arcondly
to not have a surprize

Bistrita: so we are still going for teo?
man PS its very expensive...
2metraninja: this is what I am thinking fervently
why to be expensive?
high maintenance?
Bistrita: like cost
yes
2metraninja: like OR?
Bistrita: yes
2metraninja: well, at least we will switch off of OR
Bistrita: we could just go vasalage and forget theo
2metraninja: we are not now in OR, but wont switch to it at least
Bistrita: and nationhood
2metraninja: with Theocracy
Bistrita: and start preparing sooner

2metraninja: I tend to agree
but not if we forget about nationhood
we can have 5 maces in each turn we want
Bistrita: well vasalage same column with nationhood
was to easy if wasnt
2metraninja: yes, I know

Bistrita: i dont know if was tought this but actualy very good done by game designers
if was diferent you could get 2 experince on draftees without barack...

2metraninja: I have to log in to the game and check tonight
but we can at least switch to tech Guilds first
there is not much reason to tech Theo first anyway beside we wont scare away zulus 2-3 turns earlier that we can train knights

2metraninja: played some of my turns last night and this morning, so I can put efforts in ISDG tonight
hopefully even update sandbox for the whipping/drafting business?
Bistrita: i dont think its worth
but if you feel like
go ahead
2metraninja: I will try. I understand the cons
Bistrita: well its nice to have teo like an option
and in emergency draft
2metraninja: yes, it is half for now and half for future use
Bistrita: combat 1 unit
but those reaearch would be tere on
banking
2metraninja: what you mean about banking?
we can skip it now and tech it after banking?
Bistrita: i was thinking to not research it at all
teo
2metraninja: do we really need shock knights?
if we hope we will smash them in the open?
Bistrita: yes
2metraninja: or we will have the comfort of catapulting them before charging
Bistrita: shock makes odds pozitive
and archers with 2 experince
if i was playing for sure i wouldnt have go for nationhood
5 turns or even more in vasalage, which makes our units way cheaper
to suport
2metraninja: the war will be decided in the north border
2metraninja: we calculated back then that nationhood will be positive on the economics side of the deal. 490 hammers vs 120 gold and some 30 hammers lost from not being in Bureau
what is the deal with Vassalage?
Vassalage is not "No maintenance"
Bistrita: depends on how much war takes
2metraninja: and gives only 1 promotion
Bistrita: well gave 17 free units more
Bistrita: in enemy teritory
Bistrita: and in enemy teritory every unit cost 2 gold
2metraninja: 17 gpt less is not a joke
Bistrita: so will be 34 gold cost less
2metraninja: but what we will use as Religious trait?
OR is too expensive?
Pacifism wont fit
Bistrita: we can go no religion
2metraninja: back to tribalism?
Bistrita: yes
well we will build
2metraninja: this is one variant
Bistrita: grocer in capitol
and nd
in second city
will gain like 10 hammers turn
you think worth?
and cost 20 gold more then tribalism
well might worth
2metraninja: maybe
Bistrita: getting Nd
2metraninja: if we consider OR, you should stop chop of tundra forest
Bistrita: a turn fatser
and grocer
2metraninja: groces is OK 1 turn earlier
Bistrita: and do what with worker?
2metraninja: ND, I dont think someone is threatening us on it
Bistrita: well we could use happines earlier
2metraninja: I dont know, build roads
we will want city there eventually
Bistrita: especilay if dont get
the gems
2metraninja: I think they will give us gems
it is a matter of if they want us for allies or they want us as hostile
one thing is sure - they bend on pressure and threats
they moved back their settler when MZ threatened them with war
and he had 3 axes cumulative
we will have number 1 army
Bistrita: they had too much too loose
2metraninja: yes
now is not much different
they want to develop in peace
Bistrita: well man the deal is fair
2metraninja: their lush stolen land
Bistrita: we even offer them more map
2metraninja: it is fair
Bistrita: if they dont do deal we might end up razing some cities of them
2metraninja: exactly
they will want they to be on our good side
we can even go berserk and keep few of their cities
to freak out Ot4e
and force him and MZ to hurry with their army build and actually eliminate CivFR or cripple them badly before we even stand against RB
will go eat something and will think about vassalage
Bistrita: k

 

[bistrita]

thye tr yto hide cats

 

[Sommerswerd]

thye tr yto hide cats

Hehe

Spies are Awesome

=

 

[classical_hero]

I know the sentiments were warring and many of you wanted to see this baby rolling, but I hope you will like it even more in few turns when we hit the Spaniards like hot hammer hits butter.

I think the phrase you are looking for is this: like a hot knife hits butter.

 

[Maga_R]

I think the phrase you are looking for is this: like a hot knife hits butter.

That is the phrase, but "hot hammer" gives us much more interesting visual. Imagine melting butter spreading everywhere ... Almost like during making of a cake, except of sinister connotations of a (war) hammer

 

[Sommerswerd]

Yeah I like "hot hammer" better too +butter = splat

 

[RegentMan]

I think a hammer, hot or cold, will splat butter.