1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

War with Spaniards

Discussion in 'Team CivFanatics' started by 2metraninja, Feb 27, 2013.

  1. RegentMan

    RegentMan Deity

    Joined:
    May 7, 2003
    Messages:
    6,951
    Location:
    Washington State
    Not sure why you're wasting aggressiveness on me instead of the Spaniards, but you are free to post your opinion that 2metra should be the emperor of Team CFC. But if you're asking me to sit back and be okay with that, while quoting a movie that shows what happens when a republic gives "emergency" powers to an elected leader, then :lol: at you.
     
  2. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2007
    Messages:
    5,663
    Location:
    Plovdiv, BG
    LOL, guys, I like your passion about the game!
     
  3. Majic

    Majic Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    220
    Location:
    Boden, Sweden
    I agree with cats first, then maybe feudalism for longbows and vassalage civic.
     
  4. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2007
    Messages:
    5,663
    Location:
    Plovdiv, BG
    Now more serious.

    Exceptional times require exceptional measures. If anyone can come up and say "I will handle that war better than you, so give me the rights to do it" and manages to convince me in his words, I will be happy that we have such a teammate to vest our hopes for win on him. If not such person comes, then you will have to rely on me.

    As for "giving exceptional rights" fears, I want to remind you I am the democratically elected Team Leader and this must give you some peace of mind that I am a person the team sees as capable of handling what needs to be handled in the best interest of the team.

    Of course everyone of the team have his say. I am LONGING for ideas/discussion.

    Yet, in war, one must see the grand strategy and pursue it and moves not only from turn to turn based decisions. Especially in battle, there must be one command. Even the Greeks, who invented the Democracy, knew the army must be commanded by a single person and a single plan. But they also invented the title "Dictator" which is given to a single man they trust, because they know - in war there must be one command.
     
  5. RegentMan

    RegentMan Deity

    Joined:
    May 7, 2003
    Messages:
    6,951
    Location:
    Washington State
    I'm fine with 2metra coming up with plans/goals/to-do lists- he plays the turns so he's probably most familiar with the terrain. If he looks at the game, then comes here and says, "Let's whip cities A, B, and C, then use those units to fight the Spanish stack," that's just great. Those are the ideas we can discuss and improve on. We have the double-timer now, so plenty of time to get some ideas floating (of course, we don't want to ever take the full amount of time, lest we upset some other teams).

    If he comes here and says, "I whipped A and B and moved our stack to pillage their silks and ended the turn," I would have a problem with that. If we discussed a plan to pillage the silks, I wouldn't be upset, but if in our discussion he charged ahead and did what he wanted with no input, that's where I have a problem.

    Is the difference noticeable?
     
  6. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2007
    Messages:
    5,663
    Location:
    Plovdiv, BG
    Majic have proven to be tough fighter and from his opinion this shows good.

    To address the previous

    LBs are not to be underestimated in our situation as a unit at all! LBs cheaper than xbows - 50 vs 60 hammers. Plus, LBs we can have with our next technology - Feudalism, while xbows require whole 3 technologies before we can produce them - Iron Working, Metal Caste and Machinery. LBs are particular good in few things. They are str6 AND they are not melee, so they eat Shock axes for breakfast. And they are great city defenders. It is not about "sitting behind walls", but sometimes you must do this too, especially in the early stages before you can gather your defenses and give the invaders decisive battle. Also, LBs are great stack defenders and allow us to utilize hills. Another great thing about LBs is they come with Vassalage, as Majic said. Barracks + Vassalage gives us Shock promoted LBs ;) Impis you say? AGG axes you say?

    All this said, I am still very fond on teching HBR for HAs. In some 5-6 turns we will start to see Spanish catapults. Also, HAs are great for mobility. And they come in 3 turns after catapults, while LBs are some good 8-9 turns away.
     
  7. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2007
    Messages:
    5,663
    Location:
    Plovdiv, BG
    Of course I will do this. Since the war has begun, I have said few times and asked anybody to come up with plan how we do it. This is way better and working to have few plans and then we have choices, instead of us having 1 plan - mine - and then some people say: "I dont like it!" Other say: "Come up with something else!" Like in a party when some chicks say: "Put on GOOD music" Well, if I am putting this music to play, I DO THINK it is a good music and I like it. I wouldnt keep my good music and put some music just to irritate you. If you want other music and think it is better for the party, why dont you give us your disc so we can decide if we like it and is it good?

    All this is not personally pointed to anyone. Just as I said, everyone can propose a plan, plus anyone can comment on plans. But we need to come with a plan. We cant win war (God forbid on two fronts) without a plan.
     
  8. Maga_R

    Maga_R Has quit civ

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2012
    Messages:
    826
    What are our chances of winning/surviving war on two fronts?

    The decision to be made immediately seems to be whether we should avoid war with Spaniards or UCiv at all cost - or take it.
     
  9. Calis

    Calis on time

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    8,967
    Location:
    Germany GMT+1
    I am with Sommerswerd here. All former Amazons know that 2metra is an exceptional General. And I think he never gave us reason to think he is taking the game over and ignores the team. Regarding the greater picture he shout (and will) listen to other team members opinions, but when it comes to which unit do we attack when, where, or with which unit, he should just decide. We can't discuss every little bit.

    As Sommers mentioned above, I feel that Regentmans comments lately are mainly driven by sarcasm with not too much valuable input. But I might misinterpret that. :dunno:

    Go 2metra and kick some b... :)
     
  10. RegentMan

    RegentMan Deity

    Joined:
    May 7, 2003
    Messages:
    6,951
    Location:
    Washington State
    How on Earth is
    interpreted as sarcasm after a post suggesting we hand the reigns over to 2metra and say "gg?" My line about the turn timer was a little poke, but that was after the fact Sommers brought up my simple post as sarcasm.
     
  11. Calis

    Calis on time

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    8,967
    Location:
    Germany GMT+1
    I've read more than just one of your posts.

    But since I am just a lurker, I do not want to raise any conflicts. I just think that 2metra (and a couple of other guys) invest very much time into this game. And thus, he (they) should be trusted to do the very best in the interest of the whole team.
     
  12. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2007
    Messages:
    5,663
    Location:
    Plovdiv, BG
    "Surviving" - must be possible. "Winning" ... if using the word more globally - I think not. OK, we will fend the off to the point they might finally understand it is not easy, nor pleasant to fight offensive war against competent opponents. But then what? Our cities are wiped to the bone, our forest chopped in to catapults, our cities captured/recaptured/pillaged. We will be mediocre civ at best if both teams are at least decent.
     
  13. Caledorn

    Caledorn Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Messages:
    1,884
    Location:
    Arendal, Norway
    When it comes to war, I have full confidence in 2metraninja to come up with a plan that will not only be good, but superb. As such I am in favour of giving him free reigns on decisions that must be made quickly. Just as I have been dependent upon being able to act quickly in diplomatic work, 2metraninja will need to be able to act quickly in war. Let's give him the faith he deserves and has earned through countless games where he has proven himself to be a brilliant strategist and general, without remarks like him being "emperor of CFC". Just as I have conferred with the team when time permits, so will he - but he needs to know that he is free to act quickly if necessary. :)

    Edit: Do not mistake this as a simple case of "2metraninja will just make all decisions about this war", because he won't. This is a matter of showing him that we trust his judgment and abilities. If you backtrack through previous situations and decisions made, 2metraninja has gone out of his way to ensure the team is heard. We need to give our General our vote of confidence, and that is what this is about :)
     
  14. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2007
    Messages:
    5,663
    Location:
    Plovdiv, BG
    Thanks for the trust and support, Calis, (edit due to crosspost: and Cal) it is most appreciated.

    As for how we handle decision making, I will be back again to basics. I want more participation. I want you guys to log in and take screens, come up with topics for discussing, offer solutions, etc. Relying on me to bring each and every thing to the team's attention and waiting for resolution is just not going to work. Simply because of time limits. Last night I was not able to log in normally and look at the game. But then, I would have had what to say if anyone had came forward with screenshots, ideas and a plan. I really want to discuss every little thing and if not to get ideas from anyone to know how to do it (as most of the time I know how and why this must be done), then only for to show you a different way of thinking/seeing the situation. I do know that purely game- wise all players have different skills and this is normal. If I wanted to impress anyone with how good I am at Civ4, I would have shown him all the games I have won so far. I wanted to play in this game because I love the atmosphere of the camaraderieship and the team spirit. And I wanted to learn and teach some things from/to the team. And to have fun while doing it. What stops me sometimes (beside RL time and commitment) from posting every little thing which is worth discussing / deciding about the game is the general lack of feedback/counterproposals. I post question how we play this and this workers moves and I got no response. I post a plan for something and I get only "I like it"(which is OK, means it is good plan and dont need change) or it is "I dont like it", but without a proposal what to be done instead. When I dont see something convincing until the end of the turn, I just go on and play the turn according to my best understanding.

    This have changed a lot by Sommers, Maga and SC returning to the team lately I must say. Also, I am glad to see Majic posting here about the war after like forever. But I dont blame anyone - everyone will help in field where he feels competent and have something and the time to say.

    I will repeat for n-th time: Give us ideas/plans and arguments for them. When I see a plan is good, why on Earth I would not support it? If I dont see, why the other team members will not see the reason behind it and vote it if we cant have a clear consensus? But to be active and set directions for the team requires thinking/proposing plans. Of course critique is very important part of decision making. On this I have counted to Cav until now, I will be glad to have Regentman's critic opinions too.
     
  15. Majic

    Majic Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    220
    Location:
    Boden, Sweden
    If Feudalism is 8-9 turns away it's probably better to go for Horse Archers. However Impis has 100% vs mounted.

    On the leader thing, I think it's probably best if the ones who knows most about our situation and them who are able to dedicate most time on this should be the leaders. Ofc they should listen to advice from others as they might miss something.
     
  16. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

    Joined:
    May 26, 2012
    Messages:
    2,097
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Hey now, I've been posting my thoughts and opinions all the time! Maybe not the past couple weeks when it's been most important, but rl comes first.

    As for tech path, cats are going to be most important, so construction first. We probably need HBR next to counter the Spaniard's cats. But definitely Feud next third. Longbows will be huge in terms of ending the war. When the Spanish and / or Uciv see we have longbows, they'll know they've lost their last shot of actually capturing any cities off us.
     
  17. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2007
    Messages:
    5,663
    Location:
    Plovdiv, BG
    :) I knew you will say that. And it would be for a good reason. You are my deputy-leader and I take it for granted you were active.

    To make revelation, I said once to Sommers that when RB rejected taking you, they had thrown pure gold in the rubbish. So I can be only happy you are with us. :)
     
  18. talonschild

    talonschild Drive-By NESer

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2011
    Messages:
    1,954
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    What do we know about their unit composition? Are they relying more heavily on Impis or Axes? Because Horse Archers could be wonderful... if they don't run into Impis. If they have many Impis, I'd think an archery unit would be preferable. I like Crossbows better, but if they're too expensive I could get behind Longbows.
     
  19. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    20,057
    Location:
    On the one spin
    @ Regentman
    Spoiler :
    I've got a few minutes to kill...:)

    Obviously, the point of this debate is about how we fight the War not the definition of sarcasm, or whether or not you were being sarcastic.. I'm responding to you mainly because you wanted to know how/why I interpreted your remarks as sarcastic. I just wanted you to know that I'm not mad or feeling hostile towards you at all, and I'm just telling you what my thought process was in referring to your remarks as sarcasm.
    Is sarcastic (language intended to mock or deride/ meaning something different then what it appears). Saying Um-dot-dot-dot is very similar to posting a :sarcasm:. You are announcing that you consider the statement that you are responding to to be silly or stupid or strange... as in "Ummm...no" or "Ummm... WTF?!?"

    Also by saying "Um" you are implying that you don't know what to say, when in fact the opposite is true. You know exactly what you want to say because you are writing.

    So "Um-dot-dot-dot" is mocking... ie sarcasm.
    You are stating something that is obvious, as if I am to foolish to know it, while knowing full well that I did know it. That is mocking and also implying the opposite of what you know to be true... sarcasm.
    Again... stating the obvious in a mocking way, specifically putting italics around the word "opinion" which is to convey a sharp tone as if you are changing the sound of your voice for emphasis. And the emphasis that comes across in your tone is that you are mocking my statement as an incorrect opinion, and stressing that it is not correct, just an opinion. That's why you italicized the word, for emphasis. More sarcasm.
    Again, mocking and distorting in order to mock. I never said I wanted 2metra to be the emperor of the team. You are distorting my comment to mean something other than what it meant in order to enhance the moking tone. More sarcasm.
    See above comment. I never asked you to sit back and do anything, and you know that. You are exagerrating to enhance the mocking effect.
    And anyway, what's more mocking then a LOL face?

    My reference to Star Wars was exactly to emphasize that I was NOT advocating making 2metra the emperor. I was making fun of myself and acknowledging that at a glance someone might think that's what I was saying. The joke is in there to put you at ease that I am not saying that. Sorry if that did not come across correctly...

    As an aside... They won the War didn't they?;)
    If you look at my post, all I suggested was that we put our faith in 2metra's abilities by giving him broad discretion. In other words, trust his judgment, give him more lattitude than ordinary to fight and win the war. I did not say,
    Again, my feelings arent hurt or anything ;). I just wanted to demonstrate to you why I (and others) said your remarks were sarcastic. I wanted to show you clearly that I wasn't just reacting and attacking you.

    Also, I am fine with you being sarcastic, either intentionally or unintentionally. Communicate however you want:). I have known people who were just naturally sarcastic and so they would be sarcastic without even realizing it. That was just their normal way of speaking. If that's you, I'm fine with that too. Be yourself:cool:

    I just wanted you to see that I did have some actual reasoning behind my interpretation of your statements.
    I also want to repeat that I put full confidence in 2metra's tactical abilities and I agree that the most effective way to fight a war in this game is with one commander with the lattitude to make quick decisions. I have fought against (and alongside) 2metra in the past and he is one of the most capable battle technicians I have seen in this game.

    My point was that I think our best chance of winning the War is to give 2metra a high degree of discretion and focus more on supporting and assisting his strategies rather than trying to dispute or debunk them. When it comes to War tactics, If 2metra has an opinion, its probably right.
     
  20. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

    Joined:
    May 26, 2012
    Messages:
    2,097
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Thanks buddy! It was a happy day when you and Sommers accepted me onto the team. I'm proud I've been able to contribute in a meaningful way. :)
     

Share This Page