War with Spaniards

[2metraninja]

You are welcome I rarely keep it for myself when someone is to be commended.

 

[2metraninja]

Back to the business.

Here are the screenshots from the current turn:

Northeast front:

From left to right the torches indicate as follows:

1: Impi kills our chariot
2: Worker was chopping a forest there. I want to send our chariot near Hansa to kill this worker there. We exchange a 30-hammer chariot for 60-hammer worker. Plus they dont get another 30 hammers next turn, which is 1 axe. 1:3 exchange ratio is good even more for us with our stronger economic. Plus we disrupt their plans, we deprive them from their workers which can build roads, chop forests, etc, etc to help them fight war.
3: One more Impi sent there. To kill off a mere warrior? This smells like noobery to me.
4: In this city (forgot name) there was only a single warrior in the beginning of this turn too.
5: In Nobamba there were 2 cats, 1 axe, 1 char and 1 warrior in the beginning of this turn

Spoiler :

Southeast front:

The flare marks Bulawayo, where there were 2 chars and a warrior in the beginning of this turn and 1 impi protecting a worker last turn.

Spoiler :

Our military:

Spoiler :

I believe the Spaniards have nearly the same amount of units (maybe 3-4 more than us) with the difference they have impis and cats mixed in.

Demographics:

Spoiler :

We are second in production and second in food. And we have many fast workers. This means we can have many many units. If we hold the initial storm and Uciv keep neutral, we will be fine.

This is how their cities were looking last turn when I took screenshots (I logged in the beginning of t107 too, but was with netbook with non-standart screen and taking screenshots there requires some more efforts)

Spoiler :

Any comments and ideas on the view?

 

[2metraninja]

Another things I want to get feed back on is do we keep with building the Pyramids?

My feelings are that we must keep our economics working and growing, while only fending off Spaniards. I am not even fond on trying to take their cities. At least not before we have definite advantage over them and their economic is losing breath. Xbows?

 

[talonschild]

Yeah, I ain't fond of capturing cities immediately. Just hold the line, and continue to develop economically. Pyramids. Research and build. Take those opportunities where we cost them more than we lose. Start conquering only when we're ready.

 

[Calis]

As long as only the Spaniards attack us, I think (according to your evaluation), we can continue building the Mids. If UCiv joins the fun, we probably have to abandon them.

 

[YossarianLives]

Thanks for the screenshots. That really helps put things in perspective.

From left to right the torches indicate as follows:

2: Worker was chopping a forest there. I want to send our chariot near Hansa to kill this worker there. We exchange a 30-hammer chariot for 60-hammer worker. Plus they dont get another 30 hammers next turn, which is 1 axe. 1:3 exchange ratio is good even more for us with our stronger economic. Plus we disrupt their plans, we deprive them from their workers which can build roads, chop forests, etc, etc to help them fight war.

I absolutely agree with this. The added benefit is that it'll give us vision into KwaDukuza to see what they have in there now. If they're smart, they'll be covering their worker with the Impi, though, so we won't be able to get the cheap kill. If we move in and see the worker is protected, what do you think about pillaging the road on the desert hill to slow down their approach? If we do that, would it be better to delete the Chariot, or to cover it with an axe?

3: One more Impi sent there. To kill off a mere warrior? This smells like noobery to me.

Again, I agree that this represents the level of skill we're dealing with here. That's one less Impi in position to attack something that actually matters.

5: In Nobamba there were 2 cats, 1 axe, 1 char and 1 warrior in the beginning of this turn

And again, what are they doing with so many units so far away from the front lines? Why didn't they wait to DOW when they were actually positioned to make some quick kills that would matter? This is all good news for us.

Southeast front:

The flare marks Bulawayo, where there were 2 chars and a warrior in the beginning of this turn and 1 impi protecting a worker last turn.

This does not seem like an attacking force to me. However, the only units we have protecting our own southern city of Abhi are Axes. We need to get a Spear down that ASAP, or those Chariots could actually do us a world of hurt.

Looking at those pictures, I'm really confused what their objectives in this war could be? They are in no position for a prolonged war with a competent opponant at tech parity. They must understand that's a losing position, right? But they are also completely out of position to get a couple easy cities before we have time to react, so what are they going for here? My biggest concern is that they'll take Abhi with their chariots before we can reinforce the area with a spear. In the northeast, Hansa is the only vulnerable city, especially if UCiv joins in the fun, but we can concentrate all our defenses here to hold the entire front, so the logistics seem to be on our side.

Another very important thing we need to decide is about our espionage spending. We are 2-3 turns away from seeing UCiv's research, which is invaluable info for us at this point. Are they teching for war or for econ? That could make a huge difference on how we proceed. However, we are also one Espy point away from losing the Spanish graphs, and that is absolutely critical for this war. What does the team think we should do? Right now, 100% Espy is still set on UCiv.

 

[Sommerswerd]

And again, what are they doing with so many units so far away from the front lines? Why didn't they wait to DOW when they were actually positioned to make some quick kills that would matter? ...This does not seem like an attacking force to me... Looking at those pictures, I'm really confused what their objectives in this war could be? They are in no position for a prolonged war with a competent opponant at tech parity. They must understand that's a losing position, right?

One possibility, is that they ONLY want to take Ahbdi (thats the barb city that we just captured right?) If all they want is that one city, it would explain why they have not mobilized a large force.

Another possibility, is that they are trying to lure us into their lands to leave our cities undefended for UCiv to flank us as soon as we move our army to the front.

Another very important thing we need to decide is about our espionage spending. We are 2-3 turns away from seeing UCiv's research, which is invaluable info for us at this point. Are they teching for war or for econ? That could make a huge difference on how we proceed. However, we are also one Espy point away from losing the Spanish graphs, and that is absolutely critical for this war. What does the team think we should do? Right now, 100% Espy is still set on UCiv.

I think we should get the tech info then go back to the graphs. We only need to see UCivs tech once then we know it and we dont need to see it anymore.

Another possibility is to raise the slider on espy so we dont lose the graphs, AND get to see the tech, but we need to stay at 50% to get Cats in 4 turns. If we raise the slider by 10% and keep at 50% we only have a cushion of 25 to get to Cats in 4 turns. Will raising the slider to 10% keep the graphs of SpAp, AND show us the tech of UCiv?

Would that work? Or do we need the money for something else?

 

[Sommerswerd]

Another thing I forgot to mention. Don't dismiss the possibility that it is precisely our espy spending on UCiv that is antagonizing them towards us. Many (most) players view espionage spending as hostility and some are downright violently paranoid about it.

 

[Sommerswerd]

And if we can get the Mids in 5 turns I say go for it. Even if we missed them, in the position we are in right now, we could use the failgold too TBH so we can tech faster or even do a surprise unit upgrade in a strategic situation.

 

[2metraninja]

what do you think about pillaging the road on the desert hill to slow down their approach? If we do that, would it be better to delete the Chariot, or to cover it with an axe?

Good thinking, Yossa, I was thinking about cutting this road myself. Also I though of something else. We can use one worker to take a look. If the Spanish worker is covered (very unlikely as they already have sent their 2 impis to kill our char and warrior), then we can pillage the desert hill road and retreat to safety. If we kill their worker, I think we can leave our chariot there, they will have only 1 axe in Kwa Dukuza. Axe against chariot is like 35%. Not bad chance to add another damage to them.

 

[2metraninja]

This does not seem like an attacking force to me. However, the only units we have protecting our own southern city of Abhi are Axes. We need to get a Spear down that ASAP, or those Chariots could actually do us a world of hurt.

The forests surrounding Abhi are great for us. Their chariots cant attack the city and its defenders. They need to come in the forests where our axes will have chances against them (the same 35%, this time in our favor), but main point is they cant hit us using their 100% bonus against axes.

 

[2metraninja]

Another very important thing we need to decide is about our espionage spending. We are 2-3 turns away from seeing UCiv's research, which is invaluable info for us at this point. Are they teching for war or for econ? That could make a huge difference on how we proceed. However, we are also one Espy point away from losing the Spanish graphs, and that is absolutely critical for this war. What does the team think we should do? Right now, 100% Espy is still set on UCiv.

Another very good point here about which I did not think till now. I say let us concentrate on Uciv. Spaniards cant surprise us with much. Later on, in few turns, we could spare a single turn of 10% espionage spending on Spaniards to get their graph back.

 

[2metraninja]

I think we should get the tech info then go back to the graphs. We only need to see UCivs tech once then we know it and we dont need to see it anymore.

Glad to see we are thinking in the same direction, Captain. Once more in to the breach, eh?

(I am reading and answering post by post and line by line, otherwise I get distracted and miss things.)

 

[2metraninja]

Another thing I forgot to mention. Don't dismiss the possibility that it is precisely our espy spending on UCiv that is antagonizing them towards us. Many (most) players view espionage spending as hostility and some are downright violently paranoid about it.

This is true too. But if they had a problem with that, why dont those ba$tards say a word? Why they dont speak?

 

[2metraninja]

And if we can get the Mids in 5 turns I say go for it. Even if we missed them, in the position we are in right now, we could use the failgold too TBH so we can tech faster or even do a surprise unit upgrade in a strategic situation.

Had absolutely the same in mind. Upgrading could be handy too, although we must avoid where it is possible.

 

[Aivoturso]

IMO having a single general during war time is a must. Of course the team has to approve of the general and overall strategy, but a consensus tactical decisions are usually worse than that of an average general's. We have several members of the team I believe can pull of a succesful campaign. 2metra is one of them and since he is willing to put the time to it, I support giving him the field marshallship for this war.

Now for couple of random thoughts. I got the following count from the units we saw before the declaration: 2 Axe, 3 Impi, 2 Warriors, 3 Chariot and 2 Catapults. If 2metras assesment of their unit amount is correct, they currently have about 10 units not counted for. Some of them are obviously in their other cities as defenders, but it is possible that around 5 of them are somewhere wandering about. Not much of a SoD but still something to look out for. They can't be trying to flank us with a small task force, can they?

@2metra, I think that much of what SpAp has been doing has reeked at least mildly of noobness. Not that I consider myself an expert, but I have been wondering in multiple occasions that what these guys are doing.

Last, I'll repeat my question about other teams in case it was just missed, and not generally ignored. Should we try to buy couple of War Chariots from RB or Dog Soldiers from WPC? Could we afford to swap, e.g. one Fast Worker for two WC (IMO rather generous exchange rate from our part)?

 

[2metraninja]

Thanks for the faith you guys all vest in me. I will try to live up to not disappoint you.

As for buying units, that is very good idea. Not only because we will just have more units, but because it will send message to everyone that we have allies and friends and we are not alone.

RB will ask for at least couple of workers. They will be mad from happiness if they can get their hands at such a couple which can climb a hill and road in the same turn for the armies to pour in. I think we have nothing to lose in asking and we can then decide about the price.

I had an informal chat with WPC turnplayer where I asked him if he saw something when moving trough their territory some week ago and he said he sees nothing, but will keep an eye and tell us if he sees something. I told him we suspect Uciv are planning to attack us and his answer had stuck in my head. He said: We will talk with them and if this is the case, we will try to move them away from this terrible mistake.

I am not sure I present his words correctly (tried to find screenshots, but only the rest of our chat I see) but something inside of me shouted for a second that there is something that Beta knows but cant tell me.

 

[Aivoturso]

As for buying units, that is very good idea. Not only because we will just have more units, but because it will send message to everyone that we have allies and friends and we are not alone.

RB will ask for at least couple of workers. They will be mad from happiness if they can get their hands at such a couple which can climb a hill and road in the same turn for the armies to pour in. I think we have nothing to lose in asking and we can then decide about the price.

Even one FW would be useful for quick finishes of pre-chopped forests. Two would obviously be worth much more. If we are willing to give the first strike capability to RB, we must at least get appropriate price for those.

I had an informal chat with WPC turnplayer where I asked him if he saw something when moving trough their territory some week ago and he said he sees nothing, but will keep an eye and tell us if he sees something. I told him we suspect Uciv are planning to attack us and his answer had stuck in my head. He said: We will talk with them and if this is the case, we will try to move them away from this terrible mistake.

I am not sure I present his words correctly (tried to find screenshots, but only the rest of our chat I see) but something inside of me shouted for a second that there is something that Beta knows but cant tell me.

Could it be that WPC has got info that UCiv is planning to go to war, but don't know the target?

 

[2metraninja]

Moved our worker LP to have a peek and here is what he saw:

Spoiler :

So they have more units on the border than we initially though. I count 8 units at the gates of Hansa in turn109. Some heavy whipping will be in order maybe.

What you guys think of my idea of attacking their axe who protects their worker on the forested hill? It is only 35% chance, but we have chance to take out an axe and a worker. If we dont attack, what good will do us this chariot to help us protect Hansa? They have only 1 axe and our chariot will have no odds at anything else.

 

[2metraninja]

Could it be that WPC has got info that UCiv is planning to go to war, but don't know the target?

I will ask him did he saw anything with their dog soldier which just appeared at our north-west borders.