In newer games Im generally competent, but in 4, war feels like an exercise in bashing my head against a wall. I rush to get swordsmen or axemen and get a big bunch of em to wreck some AI, but by the time I get there, there's a massive force guarding the city, and I lose most of my men taking it, only to have the city taken back by one of the AI's OTHER large stacks they make. If I don't manage to destroy the AI one sidedly, it becomes a long drawn out war of attrition that leaves me in a much worse position than if I had never even started a war. Is there any way around this?
Warfare feels like slamming my head into a wall
- Thread starter Rynian
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elitetroops
Deity
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Difficulty level? Have to ask, because the answer is very different depending on what level you are playing. Also, your preferred game speed and map size makes a big difference.
In general though, when this question is asked, the answer is usually attack earlier or bring more/different kinds of units. Wars in Civ IV can be very fast if executed correctly and it's by far the best way to set up a strong position for yourself.
In general though, when this question is asked, the answer is usually attack earlier or bring more/different kinds of units. Wars in Civ IV can be very fast if executed correctly and it's by far the best way to set up a strong position for yourself.
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ha..Rynian..I can assure most all of us have been there before when first playing this game. Then you find this forum and learn how to really play 
Except for the very early rushes, you are either going to use siege or full mounted, but as Friar Elite says, difficulty level plays a factor.
Except for the very early rushes, you are either going to use siege or full mounted, but as Friar Elite says, difficulty level plays a factor.
Im playing noble normal normal mostly. When I get better I plan on growing map, raising difficulty, and going to epic.
My current strat is to just tech up to the best units i can quick then spam out units to attack, massing them at the boarders, then sending them in. I can take one city fine usually, then they bring out their massive stack. If I end the war there, they often want the city back. If I can end the war, their military power seems to continue to grow. If I keep attacking.... they asspull a ton of units and fight me off.
I avoid chariots though because they seem to be awful. From what I can see the best units early are swords and catapults... horsemen if I wait, but I usually go at swords or axes depending on the resources
My current strat is to just tech up to the best units i can quick then spam out units to attack, massing them at the boarders, then sending them in. I can take one city fine usually, then they bring out their massive stack. If I end the war there, they often want the city back. If I can end the war, their military power seems to continue to grow. If I keep attacking.... they asspull a ton of units and fight me off.
I avoid chariots though because they seem to be awful. From what I can see the best units early are swords and catapults... horsemen if I wait, but I usually go at swords or axes depending on the resources
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Just gleaning for what you are saying here, I'm surmising that you have tunnel vision on this war thing, while neglecting far more important aspects of this game. If you are encountering such resistance on noble with swords/cats or whatever then your timing must be waaaay off. Can't really give advice thought without seeing a game, but I suspect you are not erudite on some very key basic mechanics.
Chariots are HIGHLY effective on noble level..extremely effective.
(I see no reason to play larger maps and slower speeds..just makes the game easier, but that is up to your preference really)
wait..aren't you the dude who finds it "cumbersome" to actually learn the game
anyway, probably the best pieceof advice I can give you right now is to focus less on the war aspect and more on early game management
Chariots are HIGHLY effective on noble level..extremely effective.
(I see no reason to play larger maps and slower speeds..just makes the game easier, but that is up to your preference really)
wait..aren't you the dude who finds it "cumbersome" to actually learn the game
anyway, probably the best pieceof advice I can give you right now is to focus less on the war aspect and more on early game management
ArchGhost
Prince
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Need some more details like your attack dates, and the kind of the AIs you are targeting (a Protective AI is MUCH harder to hit with early units and can shut down everything until siege units sometimes, certain AIs build a lot more units than others etc.) just to get a general picture of your timing and standing. On Noble you should be quite able to push the nearby AIs over just by expanding quickly enough and running them over with masses of your unit of choice if you hit early enough, there's not a lot of economic punishment on this setting so you can just keep cranking from 3-4, as much as 6 cities indefinitely if you have the happy to support it.
A good general tip though is to learn the diplomacy mini-game. It's hugely useful and was toned down a lot in 5/6 as I understand it. In those situations you describe where the AIs are instantly responding with stacks, you can make sure they are far away from home before you stab him in the back by getting him into a war with someone else beforehand, for example. You can bribe in a buddy and have his stack clear out some of the defense of a city before you clean it up and take it, etc. It's also pretty vital when attacking technologically advanced targets to isolate them so THEY don't do the same thing to you when you declare war.
Also, use slavery to whip your armies faster if not already. Slow building can work with very good spots but is generally inferior in term of producing lots of units over time. Chop too. Production now is much better than production later when attacking.
Even if the AI doesn't have a huge stack waiting, it will concentrate defenders in "threatened" cities to make your job harder. The AI was designed with quickly aggressive human players in mind, you see, so it focuses on defending. The good news is you can use this against it; feign an attack on one city by putting a small group next to it until you see units popping up like crazy (meaning the AI is routing them there) then use your primary force to strike at another city, or to pick off defenders that try to scramble between the cities where they are extremely vulnerable.
You don't always have to go for the immediate kill, and can instead quickly get a few nuisance units in strong defensive spots near cities to "choke" the AI. They'll freak out and build defenders mostly and skimp on developing or expanding, letting you gain a significant advantage over time where you can eventually crush them. It works very well on Noble to get an Archer or Axe on a Forested Hill near enemy cities and they'll overreact trying to get rid of it or protect against the "threat" it creates, so much so that a choke that costs you like 60-70 hammers can ruin them for the rest of the game until you decide to put them out of their misery. One thing that a Deity player I watched play reiterated many times was that if you just hang around in the AIs face long enough they make mistakes you can capitalize on, and it does work.
A good general tip though is to learn the diplomacy mini-game. It's hugely useful and was toned down a lot in 5/6 as I understand it. In those situations you describe where the AIs are instantly responding with stacks, you can make sure they are far away from home before you stab him in the back by getting him into a war with someone else beforehand, for example. You can bribe in a buddy and have his stack clear out some of the defense of a city before you clean it up and take it, etc. It's also pretty vital when attacking technologically advanced targets to isolate them so THEY don't do the same thing to you when you declare war.
Also, use slavery to whip your armies faster if not already. Slow building can work with very good spots but is generally inferior in term of producing lots of units over time. Chop too. Production now is much better than production later when attacking.
Even if the AI doesn't have a huge stack waiting, it will concentrate defenders in "threatened" cities to make your job harder. The AI was designed with quickly aggressive human players in mind, you see, so it focuses on defending. The good news is you can use this against it; feign an attack on one city by putting a small group next to it until you see units popping up like crazy (meaning the AI is routing them there) then use your primary force to strike at another city, or to pick off defenders that try to scramble between the cities where they are extremely vulnerable.
You don't always have to go for the immediate kill, and can instead quickly get a few nuisance units in strong defensive spots near cities to "choke" the AI. They'll freak out and build defenders mostly and skimp on developing or expanding, letting you gain a significant advantage over time where you can eventually crush them. It works very well on Noble to get an Archer or Axe on a Forested Hill near enemy cities and they'll overreact trying to get rid of it or protect against the "threat" it creates, so much so that a choke that costs you like 60-70 hammers can ruin them for the rest of the game until you decide to put them out of their misery. One thing that a Deity player I watched play reiterated many times was that if you just hang around in the AIs face long enough they make mistakes you can capitalize on, and it does work.
@Rynian Stacks on Noble aren't very large, 4-6 units at most in earlier eras. If you're whipping units out from 3+ cities, you shouldn't have a problem with completely annihilating a nearby civ. So your problem may be that you:
Then you'd start your granary or library in your capital
- Don't have good, improved food sources for your new cities and/or don't build a granary in every city
- You don't whip/chop your units out at all (Just be sure you don't whip on the same exact turn that unit's production starts in the city, else you don't get as many
s) - You don't produce units in every city (In some cases you can continue working on a wonder or quick finishing a granary)
- You stop producing units after your first wave (hard to gauge when to stop making units, but in early wars I usually make at least another 2 units from each of my cities after the first wave)
- You don't REX (Rapid Expand) to ~3+ cities very quickly - finishing the Granary in these cities and possibly a Monument if the border pop is needed are very important before mass producing units from the city
Then you'd start your granary or library in your capital
PsychopathicWarmonger
Warlord
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- Dec 11, 2016
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- 169
Siege weapons are important aswell. Losing no units at all with an attack is preferable, like - having your odds at >90%.
I've discovered that Trebuchets are vastly superior to Catapults in terms of bombardment so bear that in mind when warring with them too. Warring is something I struggle with aswell.
Just as a sidequestion to the more experienced players reading (won't derail this thread).
Do most players play with Vassals? It seems that conquesting without vassals is extrememly tough and highly reliant on early-game rushes and rapid expansion.
I've discovered that Trebuchets are vastly superior to Catapults in terms of bombardment so bear that in mind when warring with them too. Warring is something I struggle with aswell.
Just as a sidequestion to the more experienced players reading (won't derail this thread).
Do most players play with Vassals? It seems that conquesting without vassals is extrememly tough and highly reliant on early-game rushes and rapid expansion.
blitzkrieg1980
Octobrist
Most of the competitive and high level players on these forums play with mostly default settings only no huts no events. That usually means vassals on. You definitely win faster by speed warring and fast chain-capitulating the AI when reaching a crucial military tech advantage. Drafting rifles is a good one. Libbing Mil Trad for early Cuirassiers leading into Cavalry is another good one.
But faster isn't always possible nor desirable. Some of my favorite Civ4 games involved no vassals and turning off all victories except conquest / domination for some long marathon huge map sagas.
But faster isn't always possible nor desirable. Some of my favorite Civ4 games involved no vassals and turning off all victories except conquest / domination for some long marathon huge map sagas.
@PsychopathicWarmonger I think most players play with vassals, but don't use them much in their first war or two. You want to conquer every city of a foe if able, and should commit heavily enough to ensure that you can. Yes, you can end the war for some strong techs, then declare again 10 turns later, but taking in a vassal adds maintenance costs to all your cities per city the vassal has, so you'd prefer to just own the cities and make the revenue off of them.
In later wars, as you're starting to approach a conq/dom win, it's good to take vassals because you save your units and your new vassals units for your next war. This speeds up the kills, greatly, and the increase in city maintenance isn't as much of an issue as your tech isn't as important at this point.
In later wars, as you're starting to approach a conq/dom win, it's good to take vassals because you save your units and your new vassals units for your next war. This speeds up the kills, greatly, and the increase in city maintenance isn't as much of an issue as your tech isn't as important at this point.
Considering the Ai start with warriors on Noble this is a confusing thread.
By 1500bc you should be able to chop /whip over 10 axes. That should be ample to take down most Ai who by that date may only have 2 cities. Each with only 2 or so defenders. Which suggest you are attacking much later. Do learn to pillage iron/copper if you can. At best they would have 1-3 defenders per city. Build a barracks first if you. City raider promo makes a big difference.
In theory a warrior rush would work on Noble with 5-6 warriors very early on. Pre 2000bc. Assuming normal speed.
(BTW this is the third thread you have started but you need to intereract/post your actual games as all the advice is hearsay. )
By 1500bc you should be able to chop /whip over 10 axes. That should be ample to take down most Ai who by that date may only have 2 cities. Each with only 2 or so defenders. Which suggest you are attacking much later. Do learn to pillage iron/copper if you can. At best they would have 1-3 defenders per city. Build a barracks first if you. City raider promo makes a big difference.
In theory a warrior rush would work on Noble with 5-6 warriors very early on. Pre 2000bc. Assuming normal speed.
(BTW this is the third thread you have started but you need to intereract/post your actual games as all the advice is hearsay. )
blitzkrieg1980
Octobrist
I used to warrior rush on Prince level so it's easily done on Noble. But abusing the low level tricks won't really prepare OP for the mid level AI, assuming he wants to move up eventually. Though I would contend that even on Monarch a warrior rush is plausible with an AGG leader and nearby non-PRO AI, its still better for OP to learn about Axe, Chariot, HA, or Cataphants rush. Emphasis on the latter 2 since they also work most of the time on high levels.
To the OP, don't be afraid to whip your population into a pulp when preparing for a war. Civ4 is truly a game and not a simulator so if you plan on expanding through war, overwhelm the AI with quickly spammed units. Play to win. On levels below Immortal you can get away with inefficient whipping IE not maximizing overflow or making sure to not whip 1 population. So really, until you get to those uooer levels, just get a feel for whipping the crap out of your cities. I would only avoid over whipping a cottage spammed capital. There's a great article in the war academy that thoroughly details the whip. I recommend you read it. Just understanding good whipping techniques helped me move from Prince to Emperor.
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/vocum-sineratio-the-whip.193659/
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