Discussion in 'Civ3 - Creation & Customization' started by elgato, Mar 10, 2006.
do ye want me to do anymore concept lists, elgato, or will i focus my help on something else?
anyone interested in this?
I'm idly working on a marines vs. orks scenario. It's based on the Hive Helsreach section of the Armageddon 3 campaign - background info is here: http://www.armageddon3.com/english/campaign/Helsreach/helsreach.html
You might have to refresh the page a few times to get it to load, as the site is a bit buggy. The general concept is that orks are laying seige to Hive Helsreach, and the imperial guard has been decimated. As the scenario begins, space marines (chapter yet to be determined) have arrived to reinforce the Hive and lead a counterattack. As such, there will be quite a few 'legacy' guard units in play at the start of the game, but most imperial units built thereafter will be marines (with some notable exceptions like the baneblade). This is basically dictated by the unit graphics that are available.
I've got the map laid out and the units incorporated (though not yet placed on the map). There's lots of terrain tweaking and whatnot yet to be done, but here's what I've got so far:
You can see the ork rok dropsite at the top, and the hive at the bottom, southeast of the defensive wall. The marsh area is 'wasteland' caused by the industrial pollution. There are no giant ash wastes around Helsreach like there are around some of the other Hives, but I don't imagine it's all pristine either.
Here's a unit list, broken down in pseudo-codex categories.
TROOPS (basic offense and defense units)
Imperials: Tactical Marine Squad (offense), Chimera (defense)
Orks: Slugga Boyz (defense), Stormboyz (offense)
ELITES (troops with a specialized role or ability)
Imperials: Heavy Bolter Devastators (defense), Rocket Devastators (bombard), Dreadnought (extra hps), Terminator Squad (paratroopers)
Orks: Skar Boyz (defense), Stikk Bombas (bombard), Killa Kan (extra hps), Stormboy Nobz (paratroopers), Mega-Armored Nobz (offense)
FAST ATTACK (offensive units with extra movement speed)
Imperials: Marine Bike Squadron, Seraphim Auxiliaries, Landspeeder Squadron (ignores terrain)
Orks: Boar Boyz (ignores forest move cost), Speed Freeks
Imperials: Vindicator, Whirlwind, Basilisk
Orks: Lobba, Sooside Bomba, Zzap Gun
HEAVY SUPPORT (tanks with blitz)
Imperials: Leman Russ, Predator, Land Raider, Baneblade
Orks: Looted Leman Russ, Looted Baneblade, Squiggoth
Imperials: Thunderhawk, Marauder
Orks: Fighta-Bomba, Bomba
Each race has an immobile defensive unit: the imperial tarantula and the ork kannon. I'll also try to work in imperial stormtroopers and possibly an ork dreadnought. As you can see, there's a rough equivalence in the unit lists of each race, though the orks are a bit understaffed in terms of variety. Generally, I intend to make marine units tougher, less numerous, and more expensive than their ork counterparts; sort of like the german army vs. the soviet army in Sarevok & Rocoteh's Barbarossa scenario.
Here's a mockup of what the ork tech tree might look like. Since I don't have buildings and worker jobs sorted yet, it's just based on units for now:
Scenario Features / Dumb Ideas I Have
- There will be one tech era for each race, with somewhere in the neighborhood of 12-16 research options.
- Ork units can spawn a slugga when they win a battle (i.e., they enslave, though the reasoning is that battle attracts more orks, not that they're capturing the enemy. I'll change the enslavement text to WAAAGH!!!). This helps compensate for their weaker basic units.
- Helsreach is a major source of water and oil (strategic resources) for the rest of the continent, and especially Hive Infernus to the northwest. The imperials will suffer if Hel's Highway, the big long road in the screenshot, is not kept intact.
- If the AI will co-operate, I'd also like to have civilians as 'treasure' units that must be ferried from outside into the relative safety of the Hive.
- Key locations have unique resources. For example, the Tartarus Forge city might be needed to efficiently build imperial tanks (and their looted counterparts).
- Also, because the AI only builds one type of offensive and one type of defensive unit at any given time, there will be lots of different unit production methods for elite/specialized units to encourage an appropriately diverse army (e.g. speed freeks can only be built at a particular city, terminators are produced slowly by a wonder rather than built normally, that sort of thing). Basic troops will be available anywhere, all the time.
- Each race will have a unique production method and terraforming strategy. For example, orks will build 'ork camps' instead of mines or irrigation to improve the terrain (you can see some of these in the screenshots). Neither race will benefit from the other's terraforming methods.
I am basically a novice at this scenario creation stuff. The prospect of balancing production rates, unit and tech costs, economy, and combat values is a daunting one. Any advice you folks could offer would be very welcome. I'd also welcome any ideas you might have for improving and fleshing out the scenario. I mean anything at all - ideas for buildings, techs, civilopedia text, graphics, terrain, you name it. I'd particularly like ideas for making the game mechanics different from vanilla civ 3, and different between the two races.
So, uh. Does this sound at all like what you would want in a 40k scenario?
Dont forget to add Pie, everyone likes Pie!!!!!
Good job there, Ellipsis - great tech names . Overall, it seems quite interesting scenario.
I think its great that someone is actually making a scenario/mod based on the units made for WH40k
Keep it up, man
I agree with aaglo.
How are you doing this? It sounds impossible...
It may very well prove to be impossible.
The idea I'm kicking around right now is to have low shield production from terrain, forcing orks to pop rush (with low/no happiness penalties) and imperials to gold rush heavily in order to build. Ork improvements would generate food, imperial would generate commerce.
Also, ork citizens would generate beakers. So the orks' main resource would be citizens, and they can either allocate that resource towards tech (by retaining citizens) or units (by whipping citizens). Same for imperials, only with gold instead of population - dedicate your income to science or buy units.
I wish values for pollution and craters could be changed. I think it'd be hilarious to have orks become more effective the more they trashed the planet.
Of course, this significantly simplifies the gameplay and complicates the design, so it may be unfeasible or not worth the bother.
You have to remember that for most of us, unit-making was just a hobby, and it's incredibly time consuming. Just to create working Civ3 flcs from the finished animations for my Space Marine unit pack took four days alone. It would have taken even longer if I wasn't using bulk image editing software and working at it from dawn to dusk. (way too much work for a hobby IMO)
I'm very sorry that you became disillusioned, but there was an enormous list of things to do (graphics and units etc) that realistically, we had no chance of completing. It required much more time and effort than a few volunteer hobbyists could supply.
Then if it is too much work for you say so and don't just say "no" or "Thats Dum u shud let me hav teh biq." Also ALWAYS give support.
Muffins! Wooo! Its so great to see you, man! I love your work!
You over on the CIV side? As you can see the C3C C&C community is having its second Golden age, feel free to come back anytime
This - (check the game intro movie) http://www.dawnofwargame.com/downloads/ made me download POV-ray... You guys saw that math mumbo jumbo pov-ray is, so you can understand how much I like this little movie
Bumpity bumpity bump. How is this Scenario going? I'm not sure I've seen any of the units I've made actually being used in a game yet... though I've heard rumours.
Actually... I don't know if the WH Fantasy guys ever used my fatasy squiggoth.
Yes they did, and I`m gonna use a bunch of your units for my civ in the "Your Custom Civ Mod!"
So, since you guys are dropping by, how bout you stick around and make a bunch of units so we can make a mod?
Nice to see you on the boards, Apple
Yeah, alot of your units will be used in the Lord of Ragnarok mod, TGA.
I've rather turned my attentions to Civ 4, but if I ever make any units for Civ 4 I may port them to Civ 3 if they don't alreay exist - most of the ones I'd need to make are already here. (Actually, it's not until you've been away from all those Civ 3 units that you realise how amazingly useful having them all is!)
I pop into Civ 3 C&C every so often, though don't tend to post much here. I'm much more active on Civ 4 C&C.
The scenario advances at a nice steady snail's pace. The squiggoth is in and looks great. He'll be the orks' ultimate unit.
I've been working on the graphics (replacing irrigation with ork camps, fiddling with some animations, etc.) and filling out the civilopedia.
Alas, my time is divided...
It also made me download the Dawn of War mission editor and start working on a map based on that intro movie.
Why the sad smilie in your last sentence E.J.?
Apple, you making some Eldar or Chaos units for CIV?
If I make units for Civ 4 (big if - can't do it until I've learnt my way around blender, and some tools com out for blender), then I will probably make Chaos ones first. Eldar doesn't look too likely at the moment.
Looks like you're doing a good job of it Ellipsis!
Will anyone have a use for a gargant (with zappy arms, rokkits and some big gunz in the mouth)?
Because splitting my efforts between both projects means that neither will be finished anytime soon. But I'm still plugging away:
Hikaro, if you've got a gargant lying around, that would be awesome. I would definitely try to find a place for it in my scenario, as the orks are short on armor & super-heavy units. But don't go out of your way just for my sake; I started the scenario on the assuption that no new units would be forthcoming. Also, I'm not sure if the scale would work in civ3. Having a space marine and a baneblade being of similar size looks a little strange, and a gargant is a few orders of magnitude larger still...
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