Warlords and Autocrats (World I)

Any interest?

  • Yes

    Votes: 3 50.0%
  • I'll play a few turns

    Votes: 1 16.7%
  • I'll watch the fireworks

    Votes: 2 33.3%
  • Maybe if it was vanilla

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Not really

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    6

Quintillus

Archiving Civ3 Content
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You cannot war against a nation you've viewed the most recent spoilers for. In other words, your spoilers are supposed to be secrets!

Does this mean that if we're reading along, we can't declare war on anyone? I could see not being able to declare war on the most recently played nation, but as written it seems like it means you can't both play and read the story.

---

I decide to play Persia. We are not shocked to see Montezuma invading our lands.

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Thankfully, we know Rifling. We also decide allies are good, and find Gandhi is willing to become one.

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Rome doesn't know the Aztecs and wants contact with them for a tech trade; we decide an Aztec with friends is a very dangerous thing right now and thus don't trade with Rome.

Instead, we switch Parsagadae from Bach's in 54 to the Great Wall in 7, and set several cities to build Barracks, hoping that our Indian allies give us enough of a breather to make longer-term investments.

While moving troops to the front, we notice that cities grow and produce more slowly when their garrison leaves. What's up with that? The AI has been whipping a lot, as it turns out.

India does declare war on the Aztecs, and offers us a vegetarian curry to celebrate:

1659226820801.png


We counter-propose a trade of Rifling and 1 GPT for Nationalism, which Gandhi accepts, and then trade Nationalism to Rome for Philosophy, Delegation, a World Map, and 220 gold. Tech brokering for the win!

Bactra is at risk of falling when its Rifleman dies, but thanks to its Pikemen it survives, and the Aztecs land troops near Persepolis, but a Musketman heading north is there to reinforce the capital.

Despite some minor construction delays due to whipping-induced riots when the garrison moves to the front, we complete The Great Wall in 115.

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Most of our offensive units were fighting barbarians outside of Rome when the turn started, and never make it to the front. But our Riflemen do enter Aztec territory, and keep the war hot as our session ends.

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All in all, neither defeat nor victory, but we hope we are better-prepared for the future, and are pleased that Montezuma seems to have as much war as he wants between us and the Indians.
 

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Hyreon

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Is Anarchy time modified? If not it might not be very feasible to switch governments for non-religious civs.
I didn't understand what you meant, but now I do. The AI seems very willing to change government, and it's not very consistent in deciding what it wants. So I wouldn't add any more anarchy than they already are. I didn't anticipate this, and hopefully it doesn't ruin the whole gamemode.
Does this mean that if we're reading along, we can't declare war on anyone? I could see not being able to declare war on the most recently played nation, but as written it seems like it means you can't both play and read the story.
Only spoiler text! It wouldn't change anything so far since I'm the only one who's used them, and they're all expired. If the rule causes problems, I'll cut it out.
Spoiler Like this! :
Or this.


I've grown quite attached to the Dutch. What can I say? I like an underdog. Peacetime suits them nicely, too. Personally, I wouldn't have gone as far as Holwerd or Haarlem, but if the neighbors stay friendly, they'll catapult Orange back into relevance. The wonders, of course, have to go.
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Next order of business is to kill the crippling reparations to Germany. It's been 20 turns, so it's time to renegotiate peace. And then... the menu disappears. What happened?
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Hm... apparently you can't renegotiate peace with the AI in multiplayer games. But it turns out you can load this in a singleplayer game! I'll edit the initial post with the technical details, but it's only for the one trade. I drop from 19 gold per turn to an upfront 60 gold. Of course, this is still three times what got us into this mess, but... whatever. Once I'm back from this weird "singleplayer" reality, the Dutch are back in the green. Almost as much as the Germans... whatever. I can get back most of it from map trading, anyways. So I guess Germany gets a map too... whatever. It's fine. I'm not jealous.

I focus all my cities on improving the Dutch core, then...
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RIP Holwerd. You never stood a chance, anyways. Looks like the neighbors aren't going to stay friendly. They didn't even try to bully me first. Yikes. Still, there are ways out of this I didn't bother taking, like sharing the wealth. It usually keeps hostile AI off when they have an ongoing trade deal, especially one they value. I've got 8 turns to negotiate, and 9 turns left to play, so let's see what we can make of this.
They've got quite the army! And access to knights. Still, the Dutch have had some time to recoup, and have a formidable defense. Pushing it towards the most obvious target, and hastily building a road between Rotterdam and Maastricht is the way to go. Once they lose a bunch of troops, peace will be cheap. If not, I've got a backup plan. But I'm not eager to deal with this alongside barbarians. Fortunately, it's just a few rogues.
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At year 124, the Incans make a cautious advance, not giving away their targets. They're all longbowmen, making them terrifying to counterattack. (Bombard bug, anyone?) I almost make the mistake of using my long-range siege engines directly, but I realize I can chew through their units, wherever they attack, if I station them in the right spot.
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125. Looks like they're still going for the city...
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126. And they attack! ...the mountain. I use my siegecraft and infantry to retake it. So far, 1 pike for a knight and longbow.
127. They recapture the mountain, and move further down north. They're still not taking free peace. Let's see what I can do in a turn, and take whatever they're offering.
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That was a fairly good turn! Once their longbows were exposed, every battle was winning. I can't do any more damage, of course, but the Incans don't know that. Have I scared them into neutral peace?
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Looks like it! I can probably even get some gold in return if I fight with Pikes, but I'm not willing to risk it. It's my last turn, and I got what I wanted. Let's call a draw, and give the Dutch some breathing room.
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Despite being down a city, I think these 10 turns have been quite good. Or maybe my standards have just dropped.

I've made the scenario source folder more visible, if any of you want to get an ingame civilopedia / normal looking tech tree, it's right on the first post.
 

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Toxicman007

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Although I am following this with very keen interest, my holiday has finally arrived so don't expect many (if any at all) contributions from me over the next 2 weeks. Good luck everyone!
 

dirtysock

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Back with the Germans, they continue to grow, but not through war for once
They are very keen on building a lot of wonders, unfortunately only the Knights Templar is what I wanted and a reasonable build time remaining

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Unfortunately, the AI scattered all my galleys I was planning for a naval invasion...
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Amsterdam can sleep well tonight
After peacefully convincing the Jutes to stop existing the Dutch propose a deal
In exchange for a right of passage, they will stop selling Germans the worst shoes ever
Of course, since they are Dutchmen, I deny the deal not trusting them
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Right after the Apache are dealt with the same way the Jutes are
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Meanwhile at sea, seeing that this galley was already red, I see if I can make it to the other continent
Long story short, it fails, but a sealine is discovered
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Berlin also proceeds to build the Knights Templar, so even if the AI trains 0 new units there still is some strong units generated regardless
The Inca also built the Great Lighthouse that turn in Cuzco
Undeterred, German ships set sail yet again to seek the other lands
It fails
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Nothing much really eventful these turns, more of developing the lands we already own


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Hyreon

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I'd like to invite you to a case study in how the AI decides to build cities. AIs generally:
  1. Try to avoid being near enemy cities
  2. Try to stay close to their own land
  3. Avoid problematic volcanoes and marshes
  4. Make sure they have a decent amount of food
Except, it doesn't do any of that, clearly, because Breda exists.
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Other than simply expanding our military, there's not much more ground for the Dutch to gain. Inca's military is formidable. The remaining cities neighbor some enemy. So it's steady as she goes for now.
Germany decides to ask for some gold and a map. Seems very familiar. I've learned my lesson about the German military, though, and oblige.
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Way to rub it in.
My most notable expansion is this cheesy canal city, which will surely prove useful in a military conflict. As such, these cities are getting special treatment.
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dirtysock

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The beginning
I wonder how China is doing-
Screenshot (13381).png
Screenshot (13382).png

4 idle settlers, no wonder China has not done much
The economy is also shrinking at 40% research...
At least everyone China knows is polite
Screenshot (13383).png
Better rush for Imperialism because this is dire
Turns out the east wasn't improved very much because of a barb camp so I take control of the workers and wipe em out
Screenshot (13384).png

In the continued quest of just building and improving better stuff a familiar event occurs
Sorry Hyreon
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The Dutch city of Breda is lost to the Germans, keep your eyes peeled on this new conflict
Those settlers I decided to put some use to them and slammed them on the border, better than just having them all idling
Definitely a better position than before
Screenshot (13386).png
 

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need my speed

Rex Omnium Imperarium
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What are these very useful pop-ups of 'Our unit defeated unit'? And how do you access the 'Civilisation (at Peace/War)' overview? Are both of these multiplayer-only features?

And, there was a technology called Delegates that someone traded for, and a technology called Imperialism someone researched? And a city is building a Mill? What are all these changes?

EDIT: Okay, the original post was updated to include these details, nice. :)
 

dirtysock

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Yeah, there's some neat stuff in this scenario. Mill increases production and Imperialism gives a nice government
 

Hyreon

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Messages
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The Germans have made peace with the Dutch.
The Germans and Incans have entered the Autocrat Era.


Ah, nothing like a break from the Dutch empire. It's been quite stressful, but now they're in a good spot, and in peacetime.
Wait, what's that? They're not in peacetime?
Germany declared war on the Dutch.
Wonderful.

I've got units loose in German territory - they're either going to die aimlessly, or die trying to take Breda. I opt for the latter, and get a stroke of good luck.
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This horrible city is once again mine! Yay?
The next thing I notice is my treasury, running at... -72 gold. Apparently, the airheads decided to switch to Republic while I was away. Perpetual anarchy would be better! I overclock Imperialism to 2 turns away. Speaking of...
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In a very short 2 turns, Amhem is once again ruled by the Dutch! The Germans, frightened and confused by our new military prowess, are perfectly willing to get peace. I use the opportunity to get Metallurgy at a considerable discount. Yes, I am getting money - my government is regularly selling off buildings in vain hopes of a return to riches, including a prohibitively expensive Mill and a very important Barracks in the capital. Nasty stuff.
Now, on to the home front. Time for a revolution! Clearly, the Republic is not a good fit at this time. Feudalism is tempting, but it really doesn't have staying power. I just got Imperialism, so why not try it?
I see most of my neighbors have it, so getting the Great Library is a stretch... knowing this, I sell the tech to the Inca for Chivalry.
Also, it looks like German Ingenuity has finally made an appearance, as they are one of the early adopters of Physics. It's more a downgrade than anything, but it's also a massive gateway tech. Soon they will get rifles, and with them... cavalry. :eek:
1659645829429.png

The revolution is a success. Welcome to Imperial Netherlands! I'm looking forward to trying this new government... so many problems, but so many powers. It'll certainly keep anyone playing as the Dutch busy. The Great Library isn't particularly tempting at 79 turns.

Well, if you winning a war, revolutionize the government and fix the economy isn't a good run, I don't know what is. Still last place by score, but I doubt that'll last long. Also, what is happening to Persia?
EDIT: Got carried away and forgot the save, oops.
 

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dirtysock

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The Dutch have declared war on the Chinese and the Inca via MPP
The Dutch have entered the Autocrat Era



The Inca are in an interesting position, sure they lost their horses in the war against the Germans, and their cities are quite scattered, they do have a solid production and techs up to date.
Screenshot (13445).png

One thing I immediately notice is that giant stack of Dutch units on that barricade, so I convince the Chinese and Germans to sign trade embargos on the Dutch for the low cost of nothing
I also take the chance for a MPP with the Chinese in case the Dutch try anything funny, unfortunately the Germans actually want a tech for a MPP so I pass on them
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The Dutch, reasonably upset, dispense their rage on the Chinese via war, dragging us into a war with them
I do regret not roping the Germans into a MPP
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Fortunately, the giant Dutch stack of doom went somewhere not close to us
Unfortunately, 1 pikeman dies, and this city briefly has an existential crisis before spending gold to rush a skirmisher that proceeds to clean out the local longbowmen
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The Dutch proceed into the Autocrat Era but that does not stop the Incans with their growing siege and army power to take Harlingen with some loses
A worker is also gained, which is extremely helpful, as beforehand Inca only had a single worker available
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The future of Inca is uncertain, but that production is really paying off to crank out an army quickly, and their galley sees Aztec borders but does not have contact yet
Screenshot (13456).png
 

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Hyreon

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Inca and Aztecs have made contact - and through them, everyone else. Looks like everyone's an Autocrat by now, too.

Oh boy! I can't wait to see what happens with World War: Bully the Netherlands edition.
Except I won't be participating. I think I've found an even worse situation.
Meet the Aztecs. Oh, how the mighty have fallen.
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The Autocrat era has not been kind to you. With an empire split in two by overreaching, citizens too posh to settle new lands, no consistent resources, and a greedy play for Corporate State, the Aztecs are mere turns away from being doomed. Let's see if they can return from the brink.
I give up technology research - the AI was going for Sanitation anyways, which wouldn't do any good. I can make a slight profit thanks to my abysmal unit count, but most of that goes straight to India for war reparations. I focus all troops on defending the capital to meet the enemy's advances. Persia's riflemen are an outright terror, but Rome's presence is likely slowing them down more than anything since the AI is uncoordinated. I check out the chances of peace, or help from India, and they are 0%. With one Galley, I consider suiciding across the sea... wait, will that even be necessary? There are reports of foreign settlers near Tzintzuntzen! I have to take a look.
It's the Inca! They have Engineering and Military Tradition. No rifling... but these are nothing to sneeze at. I'll need contact with the other civilizations. I want to keep a monopoly on contact, but it's just not possible - I have little else to offer.
A lot of trading ensues. By telling honest tales of their glorious past, and conveniently omitting the actual state of things, they basically bankrupt the entire Western World, and shuffle envoys to India to obtain anything worth selling. The Aztecs jump from technologically backwards to technologically advanced, with Riflemen already and Cavalry on the way.
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Inexplicably, the Romans and Persians retreat! Apparently 4 units is too much to handle, while 2 is perfectly fine. Strange. But the Persians do land a single Rifleman next to one of my cities. I run the numbers, don't like my odds, and decide no odds are worth risking one of my five cities anyway. With my newfound wealth, I can make peace by offering a bunch of random Ancient and Medieval tech. Nothing actually useful... and contact with the Western World, too.
Do I even need to continue? In 2 turns I've stopped the wars, gained a serious technological leap, and fixed the economy. I won't pretend the Aztecs are winning... but suddenly, they look alive.
I do play a few more turns, just for good measure. I had dreams of reconquering my old land, but I'll have to be patient. For now, my job is keeping the Aztecs from building wonders, and... that's it.

I do stop a little early - peacetime is just not interesting for the Aztecs. But before I finish, I'm greeted with a familiar sight.
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Apparently, bullying is a way of life for these people. They're already paying double this per turn, so it's an easy yes.

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dirtysock

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The Dutch have made peace with the Inca and China


Wonder how the Dutch did against the Chinese
Screenshot (13473).png

Surprisingly, pretty well
Although I do noticed they decided to shoot themselves in the foot and going with Corporate State
Fortunately, Fascism is not far away so I just reduce tech rate a little bit
Back to the war of interest though, the tea-stripped Dutch have retaken Leiden! Not for long, though, as it gets burnt to the ground the next turn
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After a few loses, more land is claimed
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..And more..
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Facism is finally ours, this new government will fix the economy and make us a military powerhouse!
Unfortunately, a 7-turn anarchy ensues, so I sell a few useless buildings and hope the AI doesn't do something dumb later because the economy is dust and we're losing 9 gold a turn
Anyways, after fighting off a Dutch counterattack at Haarlem, more ground is made with the increasing amounts of Calvary being built
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The Incans sign peace with the Dutch the next turn, but that isn't an issue
Amsterdam is now ours!
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I proceed to force a peace treaty on the Dutch knowing the AI could ruin the Chinese position against a well-played player, and grab this in the peace deal
Unfortunately, they were not willing to give any gold per turn
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I then proceed to resign a MPP with the Inca, just in case the Dutch try something, or the Germans get too big for their licked boots
Before the end of these turns, I feel some pity for the Aztecs, so I give them Breda, a useless city for China, to improve relations and see if they can make it worthwhile
They graciously accept this "gift"
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Screenshot (13494).png
 

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Hyreon

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I was surprised the Dutch crumbled so quickly, until I discovered this with the save file.
1659749367906.png

The joke government that also killed the Aztecs. (like Democracy, for those unaware, it has no free units.) Naturally, the Dutch are dead to me.
I'm definitely taking a break from this for a week or so, the AI's government choices are really getting to me. Maybe I'll research what makes them tick, so I can "encourage" my next choice to pick something decent.

(0 turn save.)
 

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