Warlords: Chariots +100% vs Axemen

[Thyrwyn]

I haven't seen any other threads on this, so I thought I would bring it up. Started a game as Cyrus last night and noticed that the Immortals actually get +100% vs Axemen (the rulebook only notes that Chariots and Chariot UUs get +50%).

I am really glad they added a made Chariots a counter for Axemen. Definitely requires more of a combined arms approach as opposed to the Axeman rush - should be seeing more Spearmen in offensive stacks.

Chariots are now extremely effective as the 'anti-barbarian' unit: stronger than Archers, crippling vs Axemen.

I do not have any screen shots (posting from work). I will add some (much) later.

edit: this has been confirmed as only applying when the Chariot attacks.

 

[Killroyan]

Interesting news and immortals just got a lot better. But doesn't this make the war chariot of Egypt now the best rushing unit?

 

[Murky]

Interesting news and immortals just got a lot better. But doesn't this make the war chariot of Egypt now the best rushing unit?

It will make them better for rushing but there will still be other great units for rushing with.

 

[cabert]

you still need BW for slavery and chopping, so axes still are the best RUSHING unit
You just need a few spears to protect them, and now you definitely have to pillage the horses.

 

[Thyrwyn]

Chariots in general just got much better - the Immortal and the War Chariot are definitely up there. . .

Immortals, coupled with Cyrus's easy-to build-settlers, make early expansion a snap for the persians; even un-promoted Immortals make fabulous escorts

For early rushes, the Immortal's +50% vs Archery units probably trumps the War Chariots +1 Strength.

Spearmen are going to be seen more frequently, both on offense (to protect your Axes) and on defense.

 

[Watiggi]

I read in anther thread that the Chariots bonus against Axemen is ONLY when the Chariot is attacking the Axemen. When the Axemen attacks the Chariot, the bonus isn't applied. Iow, the Chariot bonus is a 100% attack bonus to Axemen.

 

[Thyrwyn]

not in my experience. Immortals survive BarbAxe attacks with hardly a scratch. Didn't think to take screenies.

 

[Araqiel]

not in my experience. Immortals survive BarbAxe attacks with hardly a scratch. Didn't think to take screenies.

I have to agree my chariot was attacked my an axemen and didn't take a point of damage. This is highly unlikely if the bonus did not apply to defense as well.

Also they make a clear distinction for city attack. So why wouldn't they make a similar distinction for +100 attacking axemen if that were the case? All the other unit specific bonuses apply on attack and defense.

 

[UncleJJ]

Is the bonus specifically chariots versus axemen and not including swordsmen or other melee troops?

 

[Araqiel]

It is specifically against axemen.

 

[ese-aSH]

It is specifically against axemen.

axeman are too strong, thats a way to counter them.

 

[Araqiel]

It does though I'd prefer it if spearmen only cost 30 hammers rather than 35. I've always felt they should be a bit cheaper than axemen, oh well.

 

[Andrei_V]

Here is an idea. Promote a few Swords to Combat II and Formation (easier if you're Aggressive). Unlike Spears, the Swords are still Swords, even without CR they have +10% city attack and decent strength.

The biggest problem I have with Spears, is that they are pretty much useless most of the time. It's hard to find them a target to attack. With Formation Swords it seems to be a lot easier, so they won't be completely useless.

 

[Vietcong]

it still make chariots useless once u get horse back rideing

if normal chariots only get +50% and chars have 4 stg, thats 6 stg aginst axmen.
horse archers have 6 stg. once u add in all the other stuff like defence for the axmend, the advantage is not all that great for chars. u chuold just use a horse archer.

then agin, since the odds will be aginst u on both cases, chars are cheaper so its beater to lose them insted

100 whould be beater, so insted of 6 it whould be 8, the war char whould be 10 vs axmen.

 

[Araqiel]

Here is an idea. Promote a few Swords to Combat II and Formation (easier if you're Aggressive). Unlike Spears, the Swords are still Swords, even without CR they have +10% city attack and decent strength.

The biggest problem I have with Spears, is that they are pretty much useless most of the time. It's hard to find them a target to attack. With Formation Swords it seems to be a lot easier, so they won't be completely useless.

Thats certainly an option. Though frankly why bother if they're just using chariots. Even with a shock promotion you're looking at good odds when its 4 to 6 on base strength. If its horse archers then even with formation you're likely even due to the fact that horse archers will probably have shock to compensate.

Once you've got a decent amount of swords built you don't need to worry about chariots. It then becomes horse archers that you'd need spears for.

 

[Araqiel]

it still make chariots useless once u get horse back rideing

if normal chariots only get +50% and chars have 4 stg, thats 6 stg aginst axmen.
horse archers have 6 stg. once u add in all the other stuff like defence for the axmend, the advantage is not all that great for chars. u chuold just use a horse archer.

then agin, since the odds will be aginst u on both cases, chars are cheaper so its beater to lose them insted

100 whould be beater, so insted of 6 it whould be 8, the war char whould be 10 vs axmen.

Did you even read the thread? The OP and others clearly stated that it is a 100% bonus.

 

[dutchfire]

I believe Horse archers also only get a bonus when they attack catapults right?

 

[DaviddesJ]

if normal chariots only get +50% and chars have 4 stg, thats 6 stg aginst axmen.

No, it's not. The strength 4 unit with +50% is not the same as strength 6 with no bonus. Do you know how combat works?

Anyway, it's 100%, as others have said.

 

[Andrei_V]

I was just thinking. Suppose I have just captured the city, so most of my units are damaged, and some of them have no mp to march into the city.

I move the Spear into the city to prevent it from recapturing by mounted attacks. But what's left with the stack outside of the city? If I don't have another Spear, and the units are damaged...

Now instead of moving the Spear into the city I attack the last defender (it's usually something weak, like a damaged Archer) with that Formation Sword, and it marches into the city, then I can leave the Spear with the stack, to protect it from Chariot attacks, while the Sword will hold the city.

Otherwise, I'd need two Spears to protect both the city and the stack from Chariots.

 

[Thyrwyn]

Thats certainly an option. Though frankly why bother if they're just using chariots. Even with a shock promotion you're looking at good odds when its 4 to 6 on base strength. If its horse archers then even with formation you're likely even due to the fact that horse archers will probably have shock to compensate.

Once you've got a decent amount of swords built you don't need to worry about chariots. It then becomes horse archers that you'd need spears for.

And that is why I like this change: whether you decide to build Swords or Spears, you will be building something other than Axes. Spears are probably available earlier (most people research Hunting before iron Working), but either way the "build up great gobs of axes and slaughter everything" strategy is a thing of the past.