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Warlords...The Great Wall is horrible!

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by vra379971, Jul 27, 2006.

  1. AndreasS

    AndreasS Warlord

    Joined:
    May 31, 2006
    Messages:
    154
    I cant understand why they dont let the Great Wall act like the rivers defense bonuses too. Giving your boarders a 25 % defense bonus could be the improvment that wonder needs.
     
  2. MadMaligor

    MadMaligor Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2005
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    78
    Please dont take this as anything but a "general" remark :) but...

    I think many of you commenting have yet to play enough games to fully appreciate the bonuses of the barbarian free zone AND the 100% bonus toward the GG unit. I took yesterday off to get in some serious time and after even just that little amount of testing and experimentation I stumbled on the "The best offense is a good defense" strategy using the Wall. After pumping out my fourth Great General as Jules in a short time span on a Huge/Lakes/Marathon/custom setup during a huge four way war I started on purpose with some of the big bullies (at the time Spain, America, Egypt, Japan) I litterally kissed the Warlords box in glee.

    Let them pump out the units to throw at your prets waiting just inside your borders (keep good road routes on choke points and open plains for quicker strikes and double moves to counter chariot/horse speeds). Not only do you generate serious xp, the generals pop like candy!

    I was also thinking the bonus may apply to units on the edge of your culture border who are attacking barbs outside of it but I have yet to test this theory.

    Cheers
     
  3. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    Good to know.

    Was this for balance (make it more useful)?

    EDIT: I just want to say that I really appreciate you giving comments to help clarify all the confusion that keeps popping up :)
     
  4. mbye

    mbye Chieftain

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    Location:
    USA
    My test: I built four original cities, A,B,C on western continent within the wall and D on another eastern continent. I built the GW. City D was not given the graphics of a wall around it when the Great Wall was built. I placed city E on the western GW continent outside of where the wall is located. I placed barbarians next to the cultural borders of this city. The barbs would not attack it. I then put a library and monument in city E. When borders expanded, the barbs were kicked out like we had no open borders agreement with each other. City D, which was built pre-GW but another continent, was conquered by the barbarians. Hope this clears confusion and does not cause any further.
     
  5. DrewBledsoe

    DrewBledsoe Veteran QB

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    Thanks, that confirms it then, its a magic wall that grows as your borders expand on that continent only.....


    So I'd say best tactic for marathon / huge maps, is build no troops past "exploring ones", build wall in cap before bothering even with any settler, then forget troops and expand at your leisure, only bothering with troops when any reasonably near AI gets a little closer
     
  6. darkedone02

    darkedone02 The Suggestor

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    i just love the great wall if it prevents barbarians from comming and pillaging my resources, and i don't care if it generates a great general, so... the great wall is good.
     
  7. Emerald Melios

    Emerald Melios Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2006
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    I think it would've led to graphical issues to have the wall "relocate" as your culture expands.
     
  8. meatwad4289

    meatwad4289 Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2005
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    595
    The only time theyve been in my border is when I captured a Barb City and they came upto it, and it expanded to normal size... and then i slaughtered them..

    What I'm saying is lets say I build the wall in 2300 BC, and then I build a City a tohusand miles away outside my cultural borders in 200 AD, the barbs wont enter the cultural borders..

    In away this is good, but this also sucks and leaves no risk to the person that first plays it.. If the wall's Anti Barb Effect only worked for that Current cultural border, and not future border then that would be realistic.. I mean why would a Barbarian, walk 10 miles out of his way to go around property where theres no wall?
     
  9. dwat2

    dwat2 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
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    Actually, even though the Germans didn't build the Great Wall of China, they did set up a magnificent fortification line through their forests and successfully held the Romans at bay. No need for stone walls when you have good troops in forests with some woodsmen promotions.

    Compared to France's Maginot Line of World War fame, it worked very well.

    Not that anyone cares. :goodjob:
     
  10. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    Then again, which wonders are realistic to what they do in real life? The Pyramids store a dead king, not allow you to be any government you choose. I can't recall any documented evidence of broadcast towers magically appearing out of nowhere in French cities once they built the Eiffel Tower either.
     
  11. meatwad4289

    meatwad4289 Prince

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    you missed those episodes of doctor who and believe it or not.. its real lmao
     
  12. naterator

    naterator Bravely running away

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    my appended WB test went just like mbye's so it works as advertised in the civilopedia. that's good, but i wish it just kept barbs out of the wall and not the continental cultural borders altogether. oh well. it'd be nice if it gave an attack penalty like crossing a river also.
     
  13. neptune2000

    neptune2000 Warlord

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    Oct 30, 2005
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    I don't have the expansion yet but...

    I think if it is supposed to grow with the cultural borders, then the graphics should change when the borders expand. That would keep it from being confusing, and would look more "realistic". I don't see why it would be a programming issue.
     
  14. Panda

    Panda Metal head

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    What is horrible about a wonder that:
    1) Keeps barbs out
    2) Increases your odds to get Great Generals
    3) Increases the rate you get Great Engineers
    4) Can be built at double speed with stone

    Answer: Nothing.

    It's always as 'entertaining' to read hare-brained schemes how units and wonders should be re-done so they would be more 'realistic'. As if realism was the key ingredient in Civ. :rolleyes:
     
  15. Helmling

    Helmling Philosopher King

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    Perhaps the Great Wall has more of a psychological impact--like it did in Civ 1. Back then, once you built the wall, nobody would mess with you. They were too intimidated by your "Great Wall." At least until gunpowder, that is. So that must be what's going on with the Barbarians now. They're just too scared to threaten the owner of the Great Wall.
     
  16. Morholt

    Morholt Prince

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    It should go around your national borders, not just the city. And it should be avaliable much later: the first great wall was built 200 BC, and the "famous" one was built between 1368-1640 AD.
     
  17. dc82

    dc82 Prince

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    Even today though, the Great Wall lies within the borders of China, not along its current edge - perhaps like Morhold suggested, it should have a longer life before it becomes obsolete, so that you can build it within your borders are larger.
     
  18. Veo

    Veo Chieftain

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    The Great Wall is awesome. There's absolutely no reason to change it. It's exactly what this game needs more and more of: Ways for the player to adapt to his surroundings and use real strategy; not just cookie cutter ways to win.

    IMO it's even slightly OP the way it is, with the potential for SO MUCH GG generation. But it's balanced by being a niche wonder, and it looks absolutely ridiculously cool. Talk about shock and awe.

    Don't change it, Firaxis.
     
  19. Andraeianus I

    Andraeianus I Warlord

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    And what about the great general bonus? Is this confined to the area inside the wall, or the area inside your cultural borders? Has anyone tested this?
     
  20. Smidlee

    Smidlee Deity

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    I'm thankful to report that the Great Wall has no effect on you if you play as Barbs.
     

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