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Warlords...The Great Wall is horrible!

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by vra379971, Jul 27, 2006.

  1. Veritass

    Veritass Emperor

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    I just had this happen as well. I was the barbs, and just had started attacking the last civ left, Rome. Right after I took their first city, they finished the great wall and it appeared in front of me. I thought, "Oh, heck, now what am I going to do?" Then I walked right through it. :lol:
     
  2. Eggolas

    Eggolas Warlord

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    Mar 16, 2006
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    I thought I'd try building this a couple of times to get a feel for what happens.

    1. Built the GW as Rome. Praetorians killed, Generals came, Veni Vidi Vici.

    2. Built GW as Qin by 2300BC. I chopped it out without Stone. I underestimated the effect of not having to deal with barbarians on Monarch/Marathon. Qin also managed a CS slingshot by about 1240BC, expanded to 7 cities by 500BC and researched metal castings (with research now down to 50%). No units lost to barbs, no improvements pillaged and no wasteful building of units . . . the Generals will come as I get CKNs and use them.

    I like the GW. Also noticed that on both occasions, Stonehenge was built by 2200 BC in "a far away land." I guess it's more of a priority now that Charismatic is a trait.
     
  3. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    Personally, I think the Great Wall should have an effect in the barbarian scenario, just make it go obsolete early or something to balance it out.
     
  4. vra379971

    vra379971 Deity

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    I'm saying it's game altering....and not always in a good way. Barbs attacking you are a balancing measure, and when you don't getthe Wall, heaven help you. Ya, it's powerful. Too powerful for the AI to deal with effectively.
     
  5. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    Well I personally think the OP part of it is the Engineer points. And the No Barbs in Culture Radius, as opposed to in the Wall is extremely powerful too.

    I was personally also hoping it would be a Project, rather than a Wonder (which means you couldn't Capture it... the best you could do is get inside it to protect yourself from Barbs.. the builder would be the only one that ever got the GG points)
     
  6. Jaca

    Jaca Warlord

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    My thoughts exactly!!

    I was even thinking it may perhaps be a Project where a minimum amount of cities, say 3, must build 'their part' of the Great Wall -- like the space ship parts. It would probably keep people from kind of exploiting it by building it very early in the very first city and then just expanding and keep getting the benefit while expanding.

    Jaca
     
  7. Phaedrus

    Phaedrus Chieftain

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    I just finished playing the Barbarian Scenario with one of the civs having the Great Wall. I figured that I would have to build a pile of Galleys and sail around it.

    Instead.....I just walked right through it????

    I don't get it. I think it would have been more fun trying to get around it somehow.
     
  8. winddbourne

    winddbourne Prince

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    The great wall works just fine, in my oppinion. It keeps barbarians out of your borders on THAT continent. If it only covered what you'd built at the time it would be a horrible wonder because it comes so early in the game. To get it you almost have to build it in your first three cities, sometimes even in your first one or two... Given the choice between that, stonehenge, and the pyrimids I would never build it.
     
  9. vra379971

    vra379971 Deity

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    Theres no way you should not have at least 6-7 cities by the time it comes available.
     
  10. scipian

    scipian Czar

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    When I have a need to build this, I love it. I usually play on large or huge maps. Lots of barbs come charging. I could kill them fairly easily. But I hate the micro-managing needed. Checking each turn to make sure there's no barbs, when there is having to take the time to hunt them down, etc. Much easier just building the relatively cheap Great Wall, IMHO.

    (Also, I usually play continents or pangaea. So it really is useful for me)

    Also, I can't wait to play the World Map with Russia. For once, I'll have a free run to the East without 20 dozen stupid barbs waiting to ambush me at any time.
     
  11. Duuk

    Duuk Doom-Sayer Supporter

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    I always play with raging barbarians.

    I am madly in love with the GW, and I get angry when I fail to get it.
     
  12. Mango

    Mango Tasty Fruit

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    I like the project idea, but that would get complicated.

    Once it is built it should run across your cultural border facing a certain direction. It should not prevent units from passing over it, but it should slow them down (-1 movement for enemies). It should provide some added defense for ranged units, like +1 extra strike for archery units. It should also provide +1 movement along the Great Wall for all friendly units, obsolete with railroads.

    That's one uber powerful Wonder, but it won't expand with your borders and it will be an early wonder. That will reduce some of the power because as you expand in a lot of cases that wall will be inside your border (unless you expand in the opposite direction). The real benifit would always be the extra movement, which is always useful. And of course, the GE points.
     
  13. Xerol

    Xerol Emperor

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    That won't work because the wall only affects the continent it's built on, and I have confirmed that it does work this way (lost an undefended tundra city to barbs :( ).
     
  14. johnnnybrauvo

    johnnnybrauvo Chieftain

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    I LOATHE barbarians and every game I've played so far ( its not like the old civ..is what I'm finding , lol ) I send out a settler and BAM -barbarian .

    So , I LOVE The Great Wall !!

    LOVE !!
     
  15. playshogi

    playshogi Emperor

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    It comes with Masonry. Did you mean you need 6-7 cities in order to build it? I agree there should be some minimum number of cities before you can build it.
     
  16. Flak

    Flak vBülletin Förum

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    What should happen if you are playing the barbarians is that if you want to cross the wall, it will cost you some amount of gold everytime you cross into cultural borders. Maybe work it so it's an automatic charge (sort of a GreatWall FastPass). This would emulate history in that eventually the wall was breeched by outsiders because they managed to bribe the gaurds let them through.
     
  17. Aneurism

    Aneurism Prince

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    I started building the great wall in my first Warlords game, just to see what it was like more than anything, then as I started building it an onslaught of barbarians began to attack my capital that was building my wall! It was probably just a coincidence but it really seemed as though the barbarians were attracted to my building the wall like a magnet!! :D
     
  18. Sobsob

    Sobsob Warlord

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    The real GW was not intended to keep the barbs out it's use was to give the Chinese something to pin the barbs against as they were trying to make away with the loot they had pillaged.So maybe killing barbs inside the GW could give gold rewards like capturing the barb leaders in civ2.
     
  19. Aneurism

    Aneurism Prince

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    I'd build it just because it looks cool and gives me some culture, but I admit it is really low on the priority list.
     
  20. Mr. Do

    Mr. Do Emperor

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    What, Masonry, one of the early techs in the game, 6-7 cities by 2000BC? If that's how fast you build cities, man I wanna play multiplayer with you and your 0% science rate, military strikes and disbanding...
     

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