Warlords - Viking Scenario

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Mon Mauler, Jul 28, 2006.

  1. aros

    aros Chieftain

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    I won on Monarch by ransoming cities back to their previous owners.
    The key is to only let your longboats travel on ocean, because enemy triremes cannot enter these squares, and thus sink your longboats before they reach their destination.
    I went for optics (for the shipyard), feudalism (vassalage) and theology (theocracy). I then had Stavanger churning out longboats and all other cities producing beserkers. Whenever I reached the coasts of Britain, Ireland or Europe I made sure my longboats made a full stop on the adjacent ocean square so they wouldn't be sitting ducks for enemy triremes. After having sacked and ransomed the city, I usually loaded my berserkers onto the boats again and sailed them to the nearest ocean square for healing. This only worked in the first part of the game and mostly during my ravage of England, Ireland and The Netherlands. Later I would sent huge invasion forces of 10 ships loaded with 20 bloodthirsty Berserkers, often accompaigned with a great general. These massive forces were used to storm the great cities of Francia, e.g. Ghent, Chantres, Courtrai, Rouen (never reached Paris though, I came close on two large raids:mad:) These large francish cities gave up to 2400 gold in ransom.

    After having researched theocracy, I researched three treasures, but only found one. It was in Ireland, and I brought it home to Bergen for 5000 gold. At the end of the game, practically all of the british cities had been sacked by viking raids, and then ransomed back again. This was true for northen and central Ireland as well. In Europe West francia had been destroyed by East Francia (by the way, am I the only one who wonders why East Francia is located west of West Francia??), and several cities had ben visited by my raging armies.

    I only held one enemy city, Canterbury, because the Channel Strait is "coast squares", so I needed a safe port in these waters. It also functioned as an attack base for a few raids on the European coast. It was later recaptured by Wessex and then I took it back and ransomed it to Wessex.
    The only unit I ever built was the beserker, apart from longboats. One funny thing though: I did have one of my starting four swordsmen throughout the game. He ravaged Ireland, had insanely many upgrades, outlived several beserker warbuddies, and was the founder and protector of my only treasure:king:
     
  2. Weapon M

    Weapon M Chieftain

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    I have a serious question....

    I have never seen the Treasure Unit, so I dont know how to go about finding it. It seems people have seen it and it dissapears if any of the other civs find it?

    Or is it in the Cities? Do you have to conquer the cities to receive the Treasure?

    How many Berzerkers do you guys suggest I have to have a good shot at this Treasure?

    Cause this is driving me crazy!!! LOL
     
  3. Orthodox Warior

    Orthodox Warior Chieftain

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    Yesterday i won scenario without having single treasure. Just build and send alot of berseker, swordsman and trebuchet and research all moneymaking techs. Capture cities and take ransom for them.

    Treasures apears in terrain and have strength 0.0 like settlers. One unit is enough to capture them. Load them in longboat and send in your capitol. You will receive 1000 gold.
     
  4. AriochIV

    AriochIV Colonial Ninja

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    The treasure unit appears as a Barbarian unit out in the open. It is not in a city. Any unit can capture it as if it were a Worker, but the problem is finding it. The one treasure I got appeared in Scotland, which was territory I controlled, so it was easy to find and capture it. However, unless it appears in territory you control or you happen to have troops nearby, it seems very unlikely that it will survive until you can send troops there; because it is a Barbarian, it appears that the other civilizations will attack it. I don't think you get a notice if it is destroyed.

    In essence, chasing treasures is a waste of time and money.
     
  5. xtian

    xtian Chieftain

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    Ok, so i've done my treasure research, and I get a vague description of a location (Central Britain?). I've razed, i've ransacked, I've searched high and low, but I can't find the loot. What does it look like? How do I find it? I got little berserker babies to feed....
     
  6. Der Schloss

    Der Schloss Chieftain

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    I've played the scenario twice and never saw a Relic/Treasure. The first time I kept many cities to facilitate searching for a Relic. The second time I kept only one city per land mass as a staging city. In both cases the AI civs developed and were coming after me with knights and macemen. So I figure it would've taken me twice more to see that ransoming back the cities was the way to win. I ransomed back cities in the first try and the AI used them as staging points to attack my units looking for Relics, so I razed the cities in my second try. The scenario description is vague and misleading.
     
  7. Repo

    Repo Chieftain

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    Do the treasure units only appear after a research has been completed or do they just appear randomly anyway?
     
  8. GuitarHero

    GuitarHero Caligula II

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    You have to research the tech.
     
  9. Repo

    Repo Chieftain

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    Thanks :)

    I got fed up with that one after two attempts and have gone to the Rome scenario now.
     
  10. Crazy Civ

    Crazy Civ Do I Really Need A Title?

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    Treasure units are represented by a hooded man standing next to a pot of gold. You have to find it quick, though. After all, it is a barbarian.
     
  11. Genghis Dhan

    Genghis Dhan Chieftain

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    I don't know if anyone is still following this discussion. I play Warlords on my older, slower laptop that won't run BTS very well. I have played the Vikings scenario four or five times to try to figure out the secret; I am disappointed to learn that it's mostly about driving your research down to zero at some point and just banking your money every turn. I captured a treasure cart once, it was about 2500 gold; and as other people have noted, there are slim chances you'll be in sight of one when it appears. This is too bad, because I otherwise find this to be an interesting and challenging scenario:

    --You have to decide whether to go for ransom - quick gold - but then have these cities still controlling enemy territory, which you move slower through, and generating new units to fight you with. If you raze the city, you work towards creating some neutral territory. If you take the city, you have to then slow your game way down as you hold the city, consolidate, maybe commit yourself to slower land movement.

    --The Vikings move swiftly with their longboats, but can't build Triremes or Caravels, meaning as the game goes on you are more vulnerable to their attack. Triremes can't sail on ocean squares, meaning Longboats have to deftly pick their way through the North Sea and the English Channel to avoid coast, and furthermore, Triremes (I learned this the hard way) can attack ocean if it's within their national bounaries.

    --Vikings don't get the technology to build advanced medieval weaponry like Crossbowmen. Everyone else does. Vikings also don't get astronomy, which means trade routes don't happen over oceans and the more plentiful food resources you find in Britain, Ireland or Europe won't help your Norse cities, which only have three seafoods and Deer.

    --If you take and ransom a city early in the game, you may find yourself later in the game having to decide whether to give up ransom entirely to take the city again for strategic reasons. In my current game, which I probably won't win moneywise, I ransomed my way down Britain/Scotland's east coast; took Eastham in East Anglia, ransomed a little more down past there, took Canterbury at the southeast tip of Britain, and took Hamwic on the Channel for the Horse resource. (My experience going into Europe in past games was bad enough that I haven't attempted it this game; West Francia gets too advanced and just annihilates invading troops.)
    I marshalled my forces for numerous turns, stockpiling troops and boats back home, finally sent some invading forces into the Cornwall area. As I started to destroy Wessex, also coming at it with reinforcements from the East, and finally had - except for one Wessex city on the channel, which controlled an inordinately large amount of land including the Horse resources, and allowed its surviving Triremes to continue roaming the Channel. I finally had to destroy the city. I now am heading north, taking some cities and razing others, and hoping I find one or another of the treasures as I go. I have a big stack headed for Ireland. I suppose I could, by driving research down to zero and just conquering and pillaging a lot, get up to 47,500 gold. But it seems a pity the cooler element of the game, isn't made more doable. I don't know if Firaxis will still improve upon this scenario, maybe for use in BTS or any subsequent game. But, should they do so, they might want to consider giving the Treasure the same characteristic it has in Civ Colonization, i.e. showing even on a dark and unexplored map once you've qualified for that (in Civ Col, one of the founders brings this as his bonus.) Glowing briefly on the thumbnail map in the lower right hand corner probably isn't enough, if you have to stage a major invasion to go get it, i.e. enough troops to get to it and get back and fight off homeland forces. It also isn't enough money currently to really be worth it. They should be worth along the lines of 10,000 gold apiece. Because this game is supposed to be won by plunder and treasure, not by sound fiscal policy.

    Besides the naval questions, the raze/ransom/conquer question and the treasure question, I have enjoyed the early power of the Berserkers - able to take cities held by Archer without city defense reduction - and the later power of Swordsman with three city-attack promotions, and Trebuchet with same. I can see why Civ IV was rebalanced in BTS to weaken the siege weapons a bit; you hardly need anything else. Trebuchet with 175 percent city attack is just awesome.
     
  12. kazapp

    kazapp Emperor

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    Due to this thread I didn't even try the Viking scenario once. Thanks for allowing me not to waste my time!
     
  13. Nicol.Bolas

    Nicol.Bolas Prince

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    Hi, this gave me a lot of trouble. Essentially the surest way is to just do, what you are told. My attempts:

    1st: gave up with 10k on 90turns to go. captured Scotland, but cities never grew due to improvements being overrun. SoD worn out during random ransoming ships being sunk etc., wasted time on treasure techs that didn't do anything.

    2nd: tried to capture all of Brittany, send in all starting units to Marcie and Wessex. on 100 turns to go i only captured a few citied that weren't prospering, my forces were eventually worn out, I suffered cultural flips, it just didnt work out.

    3rd: I accidentally captured already ransom city due to MoveTo. Dont do that, since you have to play this at one session.

    4rd:

    1) send starting forces to ransack and pillage north France, in stack. reinforce them a few times after some cities have forge + barrack.

    2) build up homeland, dont get any other cities. start by forge everywhere, then baracks or granary and market.

    3) technology: get vassalage, theocracy, mercantilism, civil service for farms, shipyard. then set science to 0%

    4) my stacks in France managed to ransom all of north france + pillage mines and towns-cottages. don't pillage other improvements. in south france it was eventually worn out, didn't manage to random one city, but with more tactics i might have ransomed one or two. at this point I give up on france, they were just to strong.

    at 110 turns to go I unleashed massive stacks (7-8) ships to set of to Ireland, then north Brittani, middle Britain and south Brittani and just ransom and pillage. choose big cities with small defense. size 4 city on hill with 10 bows just ignore it. its also important you build up first, so let the cities in Ireland and Brittany grow for more ransom. the ransom and pillaging will just add up and if you micro and turn off science like 100 turns to go, 215gpt means another 21500 until end of scenario!

    with theo + shipyard + vassalage + barracks + GG specialist it means your ships get 4 movement, this is SO IMPORTANT. - u can unload and escape to ocean. also keep your ships with your stack for more mobility and healing. Bersekrs should have 3 promotions, either city raider, few specialist (vs archer, moounted or melee) and many medics, this helps a lot for healing in enemy territory.

    I had around +210 gold per turn. I reached 47500 around 40 turns to go, so I think with even better micromanagement, you can do it earlier or on prince.
     
  14. Genghis Dhan

    Genghis Dhan Chieftain

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    Thanks, Nicol. I'll give this a try. What difficulty did you play this at?
     
  15. Ansive

    Ansive Prince

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    Just finished this as well. First time I tried to take over Scotland and use it as a secondary base. Sadly resources don't share over the ocean, so there's little point in doing this, not to mention that the maintenance kills your economy (20% research slider). I eventually got trampled by Mercia's Knights (10 str, only counter Berserkers with Combat 2 and Formation... 60%).

    Second time I loaded the spare 6 Berserkers and sent them to raze a few cities (Mercia, Wessex and West Francia) and pillage the countryside. With their exploits I was able to keep the research slider at 100% until I got all the technologies I needed (you can even set some cities to convert hammers to beakers).

    Once research was done, I switched to Vassalage and Theocracy and started creating raiding parties. I recommend about 10 Berserkers (bodyguards) and 10 Trebuchets (great odds with city raider), but the bigger the stack the safer it will be. Transports should have Navigation 1. It's a good idea to have a lot of extra Longboats in the stack, as Caravels can get annoying.

    Keep to coastal cities, preferably over 10 population (5 cities = 10000 gold) and land on city improvements for an extra 200 pillaging. For fast recovery a great general with Medic III is ideal.
    I didn't need to get anywhere near Ireland.

    As for treasures... it's kind of a waste. It takes 1500 research and you only get 2500 gold for each. If you have markets the profit is only 500 gold... not worth the trouble. The treasure is a unit that can be captures by any faction. They'll keep the treasure unit somewhere in their territory.

    Stalheim can be made productive with a few Great Merchants.

    On Emperor you need to score 55000 gold. I think I might have managed up to 70k by the end.
    Here's my gold graph
     
  16. Genghis Dhan

    Genghis Dhan Chieftain

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    Great post, Ansive. I'll give it a try. In later game, with your pillaging parties, do you hit the island of Britain only? Or the European mainland? You noted you didn't have to go to Ireland. I've found the European mainland pretty brutal in the past. The Franks are strong, they get some units the Vikings don't, you're far from the sea, etc.
     
  17. Ansive

    Ansive Prince

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    In my game I hit the franks first before they got Knights (almost all the coastal cities) and some of Wessex in south Britain.

    Just focus on the biggest cities from the strongest faction (the one that's winning). If the balance is lost and one faction gets to dominate an area they will get very strong... on the other hand they will also get a lot of large cities since they stop whipping (higher ransom).
    Anyway, a raid only takes 3 turns - 1 to drop, 1 to siege, pillage and take the city for ransom and 1 to load back up (if possible you might want to spend another turn to save the unit that takes the city since it gets separated from the stack). If you stay too long or attack a city that has siege units you might get slaughtered. :viking:

    You can generate about 20000 gold with just your cities in 100 turns. So that leaves about 30000 gold which is about 22 size 8 cities (1400 x 22) or 14 size 12 cities.
    There are enough cities
     

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