Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Shigga, Jun 6, 2006.
Kingie, baby, how cynical and unbecoming.
Merely rephrasing the words that had been put in my mouth.
EDIT: If you replace the words as I say, you can see my viewpoint. If you like Civ 4 go ahead. I find it lacking and drab. Almost as if the reason it was left so easily modable was for the players to do the "flavor programming" and them just throwing some default stuff at us.
I can respect the wordplay, , but if your beef is with Firaxis, why belittle the customers? Anyhow, happy gaming!
I never belittled anyone. Commander said:
Then I replied originally with:
I think Warlords will be of equal to greater quality as far as software goes in comparison to worse. I doubt it will have near the issues that vanilla had, although it doesnt seem like it changes nothing much to the gameplay outside of vassal states. Unless you view the word "actually" as though I am making myself superior to others, which it doesn't otherwise I would have emphasized it with bolds or italics or capitols or something. The words "actually" simply shows my incapability to be content with the game I purchased.
THEN ArmoryDave's quote I posted a couple posts up tries to make me out to sounds like I am hosing people. It is a simple twist of words I have seen many people use on here to fluster someone.
Gotcha, King. Thanks for the clear up. I appreciate the time and effort. Yeah, I'm figuring that too, about Warlords, but we'll know for sure soon enough.
It was a rhetorical question, which you would have understood if you had read the entire post (it's not that long, just around 140 words). All I meant was to point out that the fixes were not free. I know that fixes and patches are never free, whatever the company, you have to download them. I was not trying to say that they should be free, I was just pointing out that they, in fact, are not free, which means that you have to pay to fix something that was sold to you with defects. Please understand that I am not discussing expectations or standards. I agree with prof_geoff_tate that we should probably lower our expectations, not our standards, regarding Firaxis. I still think that my money was well spent in CIV4, if only because of some awesome MODS out there, like TOTAL REALISM and SEVOMOD, which are not free either (read my post #292 - http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4196962&postcount=292). I'm not complaining, I think modders do an excellent job, specially considering they are not getting paid, but still, MODS are not free.
It seems to me that some people in this thread, in both camps, like to quote small parts of other peoples posts in order to make points, but they quote out of context. They neglect to say that the next phrase in that specific post will clarify and, sometimes, completely change the meaning of what they have quoted. This seems cynical and opportunistic. Please read the post all the way through before refuting it. Make an effort to understand what was said and, if necessary, ask the poster what he/she meant. That will bring an extra level of quality to this discussion.
I can agree that my money was fairly spent due to mods, possibly. I am recently following FfH2. Also, I think that Kael's team deserves at least 50% of my money already and I only started on v0.12. Kael said that he prefers the people to support his mod by buying the expansion pack and future ones as well in a sort of formal addressing post of donations. I haven't tried Sevo's out yet although I know it gets great community reviews.
What I find so poor is that people who have no interest in modding seem to not get much out of the game design of Civ 4. (That's my opinion. I am not stating it as if it were fact.) If I were to never get into mods, (like I was with 3) I would abandon this game before this winter.
There seemed to be a really arrogant tone in some of your posts that came across as "the fact that you can actually be happy with a game so lacking as vanilla Civ IV, which I, in my infinite wisdom, have deemed to be objectively bad, can only mean you are either lying or have some sort of mental disfunction." I can see now that you've gone to some length to explain that this is not the case. Just a little heads up, though.
On the matter at hand:
I really don't care much about SoDs or the AIs' fetish with putting cities in the middle of deserts (which seems to be the main gripes you, the Commander and the Zombie have with the gameplay, but please do correct me if I'm wrong), and so the "promise" that they would be fixed in Civ IV was never really much of a selling point for me. Add to that the fact that the game ran stable of out the box (I have never had a single CTD) and that it performed better than expected on my less than up to date computer, it should not be hard to understand that I, personally, am indeed very happy with my purchase. That's just the thing: Taste is personal, and in the end derived from emotions. You can't convince me not to like vanilla Civ IV any more than I can convince you to like it.
That's not to say that I don't sympathise with those who had great difficulty with just getting the game to run in the first place, or that I don't lament companies' increasing tendency to rush bug ridden software to the stores. These are indeed very valid complaints.
The AI city thing and the SoD "fix" are just hard proof of our viewpoints of the game being "unfinished". There is more than that though for myself. A list is formed about the time you just pass Civil Service and start heading deep into the tech tree. Really, a little before CS but mostly past it.
Indeed. I mostly post in threads like these to for "buyer beware" status. Just in case, another me is out there I can let him know that Civ may not be what your expecting if your basing your expectations off the previous versions.
I have absolutely no problem with those. I do take issue with :
- memory leaks that still haven't been fixed
- bugs and exploits that still haven't been fixed (pop rush bug, chopping overpowered, cottages and financial overpowered, etc.)
- the fact that they seemingly never will be fixed without paying for the fix (seeing as 1.61 is supposedly the last patch for Civ 4)
Wasn't it comfirmed somewhere that patches for Warlords and Vanilla Civ IV would be independed of each other? I remember reading that somewhere.
Someone in this thread said that there would be future patches for Civ 4, but that's the only time we've ever heard something like this and it contradicts all that we've heard so far.
I am inclined to agree with you about the memory leaks, at least to some extent. Personally I haven't noticed them, so they haven't hampered my enjoyment of the game. However, I do recognize that they can be a major problem for other players, and as such Firaxis should be obligated to fix them.
The pop rush bug is a minor annoyment for me as well, but I don't care much about the imbalances:
1. In the anticipation that they'd be nerfed I've tried to get by without relying on the mentioned strategies. For me, it's at any rate much more fun to play the game this way than mindlessly chopping down forrests and spamming cottages.
2. Several of my favourite games have had these sort of imbalances (for example SMAC, Diablo, DiabloII and WarCraftIII.) In games with multiple possible strategies there will always be some that are more efficient and powerful than others. If Firaxis actually nerfs chopping and cottage spamming, people will find equal singleminded exploits to replace them.
Note that I'm not trying to convince you to come over to my side, I'm just trying to show you that my fondness of Civ IV is indeed thought through and not mindless fanboiism.
Aren't you jumping the gun here? As you've pointed out yourself, a Firaxis representative told us there would be independent patches after the expansion. Shouldn't you at least wait until Warlords is released before coming to such a conclusion?
They said 1.61 would never be released either, but here it is!
If you really hate the game so much, then why didn't you return it as soon as you got it?
No one hates the game, they just want it to be "all it can be".
wow... deja vu.
what planet are you living on where they accept opened software for return, ollleus, as we've already determined the country you give as your location doesn't allow this?
Seriously, if you don't like the game, don't play it, and don't complain to people and come here to complain.
Seriously, if you like the game so much, don't come into this thread and complain about people who complain.
Like has been said before, it's important to give the other side of the coin for people looking to buy the game and wondering if it's worth it. Give them all the info, then they can make a better informed purchasing decision.
I don't love the game, it could be vastly improved by going back to 2-D.
All you do is say Civ 4 sucks. Why are you here then?
I'm not saying Civ 4 sucks, i'm saying Firaxis sucks. Big difference.
Separate names with a comma.